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Hi Sally -- I'd order both birth certs. Birth registration, like income tax, is self-reporting on the honour system. People can do pretty much whatever they want, no matter what the law tells them! So registering her twice is not beyond the realm of posibility at all. In fact, I doubt it would be the first or last time it happened. ;)
I wouldn't be certain that Alfred had died before that registration. Again, people do what they want, and it's probably unlikely they'd get "caught". See what the birth certs say. One might think that if the mother were giving her birth surname as one thing and her current surname as another, and the child's father as yet another, questions might have been asked, so it's worth seeing all the data on the certs.
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Hi thank you all for your help so far!!! Can i just ask... Kathryn sent me in the direction that Alfred Aldred would have to be deceased for Gertrude Aldred ( nee petts) to register Mary ( the child of herself and James o'brien) as Mary Aldred. However, i have just discovered an entry in births for Mary under surname O'brien ... same 1/4 yr etc. Can they register the birth twice... so she was either Mary o'brien or Mary Aldred.. how confusing! Is it worth me sending for this 2nd birth cert... will it give me any other info other than what i already have?
The other point is why can i not find a death record for Alfred??? I have searched from Sept 1933 ( my mum was born june 1934) all the way through to when Mary was born Nov 1936 with no joy !! There are one or two Alfred Aldreds listed but wrong ages eg 61, 80. Mine would have been mid 40's. Could the age listed have been transcribed wrongly??? Just a thought!
Any suggestions greatly appreciated!
Many thanks,
Sally
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If Gertrude's 1936 child Mary was registered with surname Aldred with father O'Brien, Alfred would have had to be deceased -- in order for that to be done legally.
The presumption of legitimacy applied to all children born to a wife during marriage. Her children could not be registered as having a father different from the husband.
That doesn't mean that Gertrude could not have registered her child illegally as the child of another man, of course! And I suspect that did happen not infrequently.
If Gertrude and Mr. O'Brien had been married at the time of the birth, the child would have had to be given his surname at birth, under the rules that then applied.
I wonder whether it is possible that the children born in Worcester were not really Alfred's, but were registered as such because he was still living and so the children were born to Gertrude during the marriage.
Finding whatever records you can find for occupancy of the various addresses would seem to be a good idea.
Aldred doesn't seem to be a big name in Worcestershire -- only four deaths with that surname since 1984, and fewer than 50 marriages and a dozen births. One wonders whether some of them at least aren't related to your Aldreds, although it was helpful of Gertrude and Alfred to have all daughters in that first batch, of course. But they could be related to the boys in the second batch.
I'm no good at sorting out UK geography without running back and forth to google maps, but a search at the on-line white pages
http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/search.publisha
for Aldred in Worcestershire gives only 17 results (most of which don't look like they're in Worcestershire). I might just make some calls, myself!
The three sons do not appear to have died 1984-2005, so at least one or two of them might still be living. The daughters too, of course, but without married names, hard to tell.
Do you have full names and birthdates for the children?
With the daughters' given names and birthdates, you could search the death index post 1984. If you could identify deaths for any of them, the death certs (from which you might also find newspaper obituaries) could provide info about living relations.
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I would follow the latest address shown on the birth certificates ,... in the old electoral lists at a library in Worcester or nearby archive and see who was living there.
You won't be able to find lists for the war years.
It might be worth checking for Alfred at the previous last address too.
Gwyn
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Sally
I think the only thing you can do is to look for Desendents of the other children and see if they can shed some light on it..or see if the other children are still alive
Maybe Gertrude & James never married..or if they did to look for their marriage would take a long time as it would mean looking through each year and that then 4 qtrs per year
Julie
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Please can anyone try and help me PLEASE !!!!!!
I have reached a dead end.... looking for any info on my grandparents ALFRED and GERTRUDE ALDRED (nee PETTS)
They married in Derby in 1915, (ALfred was from Surrey). They had 5 daughters GERTRUDE 1916, EDITH M 1918, CARRIE L 1920, HILDA M 1923, WINIFRED M 1925. They were all born in Derby. They then seem to have moved to Worcester where 3 sons were born: ALFRED E 1927, JOHN V 1929, SIDNEY 1932. Then my mother was born in 1934 but put into a home.... did something happen between ALFRED AND GERTRUDE.? I can find no death record for him and he is listed on my mums birth cert at an address in Quay St Worcester. This wasnt their address when they had Sidney... it was a Vergonia Avenue, Worcester.... did Alfred and Gertrude split up i wonder?
Anyway, in Nov 1936 Gertrude has another child MARY ALDRED. On her birth cert her father is listed as a JAMES O'BRIEN. Gertrude and James address lookes like Tunnel Hill Worcester. I can find no marriage cert for them either......
PLEASE PLEASE if anyone can help me at all or point me in the right direction to find out more, i would be v gratefull!!! THANK YOU!
Sally
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