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Ursula
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23 Feb 2007 02:16 |
Please can anyone help me, for over 20 years I have been desperately trying to find info on PHYLLIS BOOTH (married surname,maiden name unknown) born c1863. She and her husband ALFRED BOOTH (a railway labourer) raised my gr grandmother LILY WILD (born June 1891 in Shardlow workhouse). Unfortunately there are so many skeletons hiding that I cannot unearth them all. I can tell you where they were living in 1909--Belper, Derbyshire, but can I locate them----any of them on a census return--no. My gr grandmother just does not appear anywhere. It would appear that Alfred was posibly from Belper originally, although I have yet to prove it. He was a railway worker. I know that Clara got married to Albert Scaife in Dec 1891.I can also trace the Wild side of my family tree back to Norwich, but I just cannot find Phyllis Booth ANYWHERE. I have her death certificate (1931), she is buried in our family grave in New Mills, Derbyshire. My gr grandmother left Belper sometime after 1912--1916. Her partner was Richard Beresford (formerly married in 1893 to Emily Barns,they lost sons in the 1st ww). Phyllis obviously loved my gr grandmother very much because she would commute regularly from Belper to New Mills to be with her and evenyually stayed in New Mills with her. The only promising lead I have had is that a Phyllis Robinson married a Alfred Booth in june quater of 1910, I will be honest, I have not followed this up, hyllis would have been approx 47 yrs old. Did people marry so late in life in those days, I always thought they married young.Please can somebody help, any suggestions as to where to look next gratefully received.
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Maypole
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18 Dec 2007 02:31 |
It might be worth checking whether Robinson was Phyllis's maiden name, or a married name. She could have been a widow, remarrying at 47, though late first marriages were not uncommon, especially if she had looked after elderly relatives, for example.
It may be a long trawl through the BMD index, but pick a likely year for a first marriage, when she would have been 23, say, and look for any male Robinsons in each quarter. Look at the other names on the same page, and see if you can find a Phyllis. Repeat as necessary for different years.
Joy
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JaneyCanuck
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18 Dec 2007 03:36 |
There's a couple of bumps in that tale.
Phyllis Booth and Alfred Booth raised Lily Wild, born 1891.
Clara married Albert Scaife in 1891.
Er, Clara?
I see from the index that Albert Scaife married Clara Wild, but you haven't introduced Clara. Was she Lily's mother?
One reason people married late in life was pre-existing marriages and the impossibility / impracticability of divorce. One set of my grx2 grparents married at the age of 45, 7 years after their last child was born. I know there's a pre-existing marriage there somewhere, I just can't find it!
Is this Clara's birth?
Births Mar 1874 WILD Clara Belper 7b 550
So, per the 1881 census, her parents were William and Ann?
No, that must be the wrong one. This seems to be her in 1901 -- I wish people would give the info they have!!!!!!!!!
Name: Clara Scaife Age: 32 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Albert Gender: Female Where born: Derby, Derbyshire, England Civil Parish: Alvaston and Boulton Ecclesiastical parish: Boulton St Mary the Virgin Town: Crewton County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England Registration district: Shardlow Sub-registration district: Shardlow ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 290
Albert Scaife 34 Albert Scaife 8 Alfred Scaife 3 Arthur Scaife 1 Clara Scaife 32 Rose Scaife 13 Sidney Scaife 4 Violet Scaife 5
So this one?
Births Jun 1869 Wild Clara Derby 7b 377
But there's a Rose there:
Name: Rose Scaife Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Albert Mother's Name: Clara Gender: Female Where born: Osmaston, Derbyshire, England
But no matching Rose Scaife in the birth index. So ... aren't those your people?
A possible Phyllis:
Name: Philis Robinson Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Belper, Derbyshire, England Civil Parish: Belper Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Town: Belper County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England
Occupation: housekeeper Condition as to marriage: single Registration district: Belper Sub-registration district: Belper ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Household schedule number: 104
John Merrill 36 Lilly Merrill 10 Philis Robinson 36
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JaneyCanuck
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18 Dec 2007 03:51 |
That Philis Robinson in 1901 looks a lot like this one in 1891:
Name: Phillis Lancaster -- it says Lancashire, not Lancaster Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Belper, Derbyshire, England Civil Parish: Belper Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Town: Belper County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England
Occupation: housekeeper Condition as to marriage: single Registration district: Belper Sub-registration district: Belper ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Phillis Lancaster 27 John Morrill 31
Same employer. Except this time he's shown as married.
And ta da. Here we are:
Marriages Sep 1883 ALLCOCK John Belper 7b 870 ** LANCASHIRE Phillis Belper 7b 870 PRESTIDGE Charles Alfred Nottingham 7b 870 Scan available - click to view ** ROBINSON Joseph Belper 7b 870 Smith Mary Elizabeth Belper 7b 870
Yes sirreee bob.
Joseph Robinson could have died anytime from 1883 to 1910, so I'll leave that to you!
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JaneyCanuck
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18 Dec 2007 04:06 |
Births Dec 1862 LANCASHIRE Phillis Belper 7b 414
Perhaps you're related to Sarah / Raquel. ;)
Danged if I can find Phillis in 1871. Or 1881. Lordy, maybe that wasn't her first marriage!
No, no, here we are; this time it does say Lancaster, coincidentally:
Name: Phillis Lancaster Age: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 Relation: Boarder Gender: Female Where born: Belper, Derbyshire, England Civil Parish: Belper County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England Street address: 2 Halfway Houses Derby Road Occupation: Chevoner Registration district: Belper Sub-registration district: Belper ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Elizabeth Alton 14 Emanuel Alton 59 Jabez Alton 6 Mary A. Alton 57 Phillis Lancaster 19
But still nothing to indicate her parents.
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JaneyCanuck
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18 Dec 2007 04:07 |
I just realized Ursula's post is dated last February.
AAAARGH. She probably knows every bit of this by now ...
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Maypole
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18 Dec 2007 04:16 |
The Philis Robinson/John Merrill household looks interesting.
John Merrill, b. Belper c. 1865, died, aged 44, in 1909. (9c p 213) Reg. at Ecclesall Brierlow. Possibly the same John Merrill whose birth is registered in the same place in December 1864. (9c p. 233)
I don't see how Lilybecomes Lily Wild, though.
Joy.
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JaneyCanuck
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18 Dec 2007 05:08 |
Lily Wild? You've lost me!
Oh, I get it! Lilly Merrill. I wasn't even looking at Lilly Merrill, to be honest. Went right over my head. Can you believe it???
But the right age, with a Phillis alongside, to be sure.
I don't think she became Lily Wild -- I think she was Lily Wild all along, and being called Lilly Merrill in that census for some sort of propriety, or out of some sort of negligence on someone's part -- if that is her.
No Lil* Merrill birth in Derbyshire 1888 to 1892.
Is John Merrill the father of Llily Wild, then? And he kept her, and Phillis was the devoted housekeeper/nanny?
Was Phillis "with" him, and only married after his death?
What of that Scaife household in 1901 then?
Time for me to go eat dinner!
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