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Hi - I'm at a loss at to why I can't find a birth record for my great granddad, Edmund Henry Burnley. He was born in Sunderland on 11/11/1871 to John William Burnley (born 1846 in Batley, Yorks). I don't know who his mother was. John was married twice to Martha Holmes and Mary Jane Brown but I've checked for all Edmunds under Burnley, Holmes and Brown to no avail. Does anyone have any ideas?

Hi Claire,

Strange one.......I am unable to locate him either......are you sure of the birth date?

Looks like John married Martha in 1875 and then Mary in 1891, so where does he fit in!

Have you located the family on the 1881 census?

Annx

I cant find Edmund on any census,have you Clare?
Is this Your John?

1901 England Census
about John W Burnley
Name: John W Burnley
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary J
Gender: Male
Where born: Butley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sunderland
Ecclesiastical parish: St Hilda
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: North Bishopwearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 416
Household Members: Name Age
John W Burnley 56
Mary J Burnley 47
Marion Lunan 27

1881 England Census
about John W. Burnley
Name: John W. Burnley
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Batley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Monkwearmouth Shore
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address: 103 Roker Aven
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Marine Engineer (Seaman)

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: Monk Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John W. Burnley 35
Mary Jane Brown 27

Hi Anne
My family are convinced of his DOB, but I have his marriage cert which confirms he was 23 at his date of marriage ie 27/11/1894. He appears to have been born out of wedlock but I don't know to whom. I found his dad John and Mary Jane Brown on the 1881 census living together in Sunderland - she is down as housekeeper, interestingly. I believe his first wife died in 1879.
The 1891 census has John visiting his sister Elizabeth Holliday (nee Knowles) in Gildersome, Yorks with his daughter Maud Burnley. Maud was on the freeBMD site as born Maud Brown.
Clare

This birth is interesting given the first wifes maiden name?

Births Sep 1874 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Burnley Edwin Holmes W. Derby 8b 485

Vivienne
I have this info and you're right, this is his dad.
Thanks!
Clare

Vivienne
That's worth a shot - I might invest in a birth cert. No idea why they would be in Derby as his dad was a marine engineer, but who knows!
Clare

He may have lied about his age as he would have to have been over 21 to marry without permission?

Is this him on 1911?

BURNLEY, Edmund Henry Head Married M 33 1878 Engineer Wash Houseman Durham Tyne Dock VIEW
BURNLEY, Margaret Wife Married F 20 1891 Northumberland Newcastle on Tyne VIEW
BURNLEY, Doris Daughter F 6 1905 Durham Sunderland VIEW
BURNLEY, Freda Daughter F 4 1907 Durham Sunderland VIEW
BURNLEY, John William Son M 0 (6 MONTHS) 1911 Northumberland Newcastle VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
30564 Reference:
RG14PN30564 RG78PN1752 RD558 SD2 ED7 SN252

Registration District:
Newcastle upon Tyne Sub District:
St Andrew EnumerationDistrict:
7 Parish:
St Andrew

Address:
12 Ellison Terrace Newcastle-Upon-Tyne

Just for ref-is this John in 1871?
1871 Ancestry
Name: John William Burry
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Batley, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Bishop Wearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: North Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 74
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Ann Bell 49
John William Burry 25 Occ:Engine Fitter
William Charlsworth 25
Thomas Alston 26

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 5001; Folio: 63; Page: 15

Maureen

I cant find a marriage on freebmd for his name in 1894??

Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brown Walter Frederick Sunderland 10a 1038
>>>>>>Burnley Edmund Henry Sunderland 10a 1038
Paterson Ann Sunderland 10a 1038
Smith Hannah Sunderland 10a 1038

And the 1911 says they have been married 1 yr and no marriage for a margaret to him.

??

1901 England Census
about Edmund H Burnley
Name: Edmund H Burnley
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Tyne Dock, Durham, England

Civil parish: Wallsend
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Wallsend
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Tynemouth
Sub-registration district: Wallsend
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members: Name Age
Edmund H Burnley 23
Hannah Burnley 22
Sarah Swan 20 <<<servant

Marriages Jun 1909 (>99%)
BURNLEY Edmund Henry Newcastle T. 10b 142
CARR Margaret Necastle T 10b 142

It looks to me as though he MIGHT have really been born a lot later than you think. This matches with Viv's 1911 and name of first wife....
1901 Ancestry
Name: Edmund H Burnley
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Tyne Dock, Durham, England
Civil parish: Wallsend
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Wallsend
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:
Registration district: Tynemouth
Sub-registration district: Wallsend
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
Edmund H Burnley 23
Hannah Burnley 22
Sarah Swan 20
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4796; Folio: 120; Page: 13

Maureen

Didnt think to look later for a marriage ,silly me.

But I found this in my travels..

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
about Edmund H Burnley
Name: Edmund H Burnley
Regiment or Corps: Northumberland Fusiliers, Northumberland Fusiliers
Regimental Number: 6/3143, 265600

Edmund's first marriage, for info:

Marriages Dec 1897
Brown Walter Frederick Sunderland 10a 1038
> Burnley Edmund Henry Sunderland 10a 1038
Paterson Ann Sunderland 10a 1038
Smith Hannah Sunderland 10a 1038

Do we know to whom?

I looked because in 1911 his wife is aged 20, and there is a 6-yr-old kid.

Second marriage:

Marriages Jun 1909
BURNLEY Edmund Henry Newcastle T. 10b 142
CARR Margaret Necastle T 10b 142


Whoops! Events overtook me as I pondered. Will have to go back and have a read ...

Another one for the pot??
Durham county,to go with 1911 and 1901 census birth place?

Births Dec 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BROWN Edmund Henry S.Shields 10a 704


Edit ,yes Janey,he married Hannah as per the 1901 posted by Maureen and I both!

I like that one, Viv.

yeah yeah

I was searching here and there for this and that and neglected to refresh as things had seemed to have hit the doldrums when I was first reading ...


We all know there's nothing I love more than a shapeshifting great-grandpa!