Find Ancestors

Hi.
For months I have been trying to find my grandfather on the 1891 census and earlier.
All I know of him is that on the 1901 census he was living in Aldershot. His details were:-
Henry John. Single. Boarder, Age 50 . b.1851 in Soho, London, Bootmaker Journeyman.
RG13/610/31/7

On the 1911 census details read:-
Henry Johns. Married. Age 50. Bootmaker. Born St Anns Soho London. Still living in Aldershot.
RG14PN3114 RD34 SD2 ED5 SN59

In 1911 he stated he was married, however I know this to be untrue. On both census he gives his age as 50. His occupation and birthplace do not vary.
In 1911 there was a daughter and Henry Johns signed the birth certificate. In 1913 another daughter was born again Henry Johns signing the birth certificate. His second daughter died 1914.
Henry vanishes from the scene between 1914 and 1918. as my grandmother remarries.

I have scoured Ancestry, looking under all the variations of the name I can think of but with no avail.

Has anyone any suggestions as to where else I can look.?

Many thanks Dud.

1911 for ref


JOHNS, Henry Head Married M 50 1861 Bootmaker S Annes London
JOHNS, Ellen Wife Married F 38 1873 Farnborough Hants
JOHNS, Amelia Daughter F 0 (1 MONTH) 1911 Aldershot Hants
WILDEN, Fredrick Robert Stepson M 2 1909 Aldershot Hants

Registration District:
Farnham Sub District:
Aldershot Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Aldershot

Address:
53 Perowne St Ashot County:
Surrey

HI fanny.
Thats hENRY in 1911. Amelia was my mother. Henry never married Ellen. The stepson listed is Weedon wrongly transribed as Wilden. Dud.

At the moment I cant even find him in 1901 !

I must be getting worse at this .

at last
1901
Name: Henry John
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Soho, London, England
Civil parish: Aldershot
Ecclesiastical parish: Aldershot Holy Trinity
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Name: Henry Johns
Estimated Birth Date: 24 Feb 1850
Father's Name: Edwin John Johns
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Johns
County: Middlesex


I presume you have checked this one out - baptism record on Ancestry

Hi GB
I have checked and double checked so many. Have you any more deatils on this one? Dud.

That baptism seems to be Lambeth

Also Emma and Edwin baptised on same day

Queen St
Father Edwin is a painter




>>
Name: Edwin Johns
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Crowdern
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 20 Nov 1843
Parish: St James, Paddington
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Richard Johns
Spouse Father Name: John Crowdern

Think occupation is painter

I will give this man another go.
Thanks for all your help.
Dud.

These are the only births in the Westmister district between 1848 and 1865,none for a Henry John or plain Henry Johns with no middle name.

Births Dec 1853
JOHNS Henry Louis Westminster 1a 256
Births Dec 1857
Johns Henry Morton Westminster 1a 274

I cant find any possibles on earlier census either.

Hi Fanny
Many thanks. Dud.

Here's the batch that was baptised together, in 1851:

Name: Mary Ann Johns
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1812
Relation: Mother
Where born: Davenport, Devon, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: Surrey

Mary Ann Johns 39 - married, dressmaker
Mary Ann Johns 16 - born Devonport
Emma Johns 12 - born Devonport
Edwin Johns 9 - born Devonport
Henry Johns 8 - born Lambeth

(they are *not* with the other household Ancestry has mashed them up with)

Johns is very much a Cornwall/Devon surname.


This is that couple in 1841 -- although they didn't marry until 1843:

Edwin Johns 30 - Painter
Mary Ann Johns 25
Mary Ann Johns 6
Emma Johns 1

Civil parish: Stoke Damerell
County/Island: Devon


They are looking like counterparts of my Cornwall Hills! Back and forth to London, spouses not living in the same place, not married when they should have been ...

Here are brothers Edwin and Henry in 1861:

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Kennington, Surrey, England

Name: Edwin Johns
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Plymouth, Devon, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: Surrey


>>> both are shown as "engineer", so I think that probably rules that Henry Johns out.

Hi Janey.

Thanks for looking.
As my Henry was a Journeyman bootmaker in 1901 I would have thought he was in the boot trade in 1891. However I cannot find a Henry Johns in that trade. Either I am barking up the wrong tree or there has been a bad transcription of the records. Dud.

That's what I was getting at, Dud -- someone who was consistently an engineer didn't likely become a bootmaker from one census to the next.

This is the one from my posts above, for info, in 1881:

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ellen Johns - born c1854, Sussex
Where born: Surrey, England
Occupation: Engineer (Artiz)

Civil parish: Saint Bride
County/Island: London

It doesn't say "Artiz". The category notation beside "Engineer" isn't very legible, but it clearly says Engineer.


It's still a little interesting, though. I think the marriage of that couple will be this:

Marriages Dec 1884
> JOHNS Henry Charles Strand 1b 982
Robbins Harriet Annie Strand 1b 982
> Sturgeon Ellen Strand 1b 982
Thorburn Walter Richard Strand 1b 982

and Strand registration district covers St Anne Soho ... the birthplace given by your Henry Johns in 1901 and 1911 ...

Looking for births in Strand reg dist, we do have

Births Mar 1856
JOHNS Henry Charles Strand 1b 423

And that is the name of the Henry Johns, engineer, who married Ellen Sturgeon in Strand reg dist in 1884 -- at least by my calculations. But duh, that can't be the Henry I've been tracking, since he was born before 1851. ;) It would be the one who married Ellen Sturgeon in 1884, though, so the 1884 marriage is not the marriage of the couple in St Bride in 1881.

That Henry gives his place of birth in censuses as 1851 Lambeth / 1861 Kennington / 1871 Lambeth / 1881 Surrey.

This is him in 1871, to complete the set for him:

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Boarder
Occupation: Engineer

Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Kennington St Mark
County/Island: London
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington First

I have tracked the same Henry (engineer) & found the same census info as JC,

In 1881 he is married to Ellen and their ages are 38 and 27 on the census, Strange that there are no children?

Can't find a marriage before 1881 for them and can't find either of them in 1891
.
Yes it would seem unusual for an engineer to become a bootmaker in the intervening years between census' but a nagging question for me is- is it also unusual that someone in their late 40s/early 50s would still be a journeyman i.e. not yet qualified in their trade at that age?

Julie

Name: Henry Johns
Death Registration Month/Year: 1936
Age at death (estimated): 73 = dob c1862-3
Registration district: Aldershot
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 311

?

I was more inclined towards this birth for Henry the engineer:

Births Dec 1843 (>99%)
Johns Henry Lambeth 4 263

Jooleh -- join me in musing. ;)

Henry is in Aldershot in 1901.

Might he have been in the military in 1891? Might he have gone in an engineer, and for some reason gone into bootmaking on his release? Aldershot is a pretty military location, after all, for someone not from there.


The death I posted is, I think, *our* Henry.

On the journeyman bootmaker part -- in 1901 he is boarding in the household of John Sharp, master bootmaker, so yes, he's learning the trade, it seems. There are four other journeyman bootmakers in the household, employed by John Sharp.

The others are also older men -- 62, 50, 55, 65 -- and born London, Woolwich, Lancashire, and Ireland.

Might they all be ex-military and retraining, as it were?

I'm fixing his name there (it says Johns, Ancestry has transcribed as John) to ease our task. ;)