Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 09:32 |
I have to go out today but will check in where I can.
tree ourfamily/2010
purpose to find birth certificate and true family harold tudor jones born c1901.
He is a foster child 1911. it is probable he took on foster father's name.
British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 about Harold T Jones Name: Harold T Jones Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898 Age at enlistment: 18 Residence: 2 Wellington St, Shotton Document Year: 1916 Regimental number: 13876 Regiment Name: RFA Number of images: 37 Does next of kin say John Jones father Choccy eliminates this one below
Mary Jane Jones died 14 july 1912 Peel Memorial Home Overton age 62 widow of harold tudor jones joiner aortic aneurism and syncope informant nurse Jane lloyd present at death peel memorial home
1911 Address: Turning Row Overton Ellesmere JONES, Mary Jane Head Widow F 61 1850 Charwoman Overton Flints JONES, Harrold Tudor Foster Son M 10 1901 Wrexham Denbs
She is a widow and starts to reply to thequestion re the length of the present marriage unfortunately she then crosses it out together with the info about numder of children she has born and how many are living and died.
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915 about Harold Tudor Jones Name: Harold Tudor Jones (senior) Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Year of Registration: 1904 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun Age at Death: 45 District: Ellesmere County: Flintshire, Shropshire Volume: 6a Page: 419 death cert on ancestry informant wife cause of death pulmonary tuberculosis irnmonger and joiner
1901 census - household transcription Person: JONES, Hard Tudor Address: Canister Hall, Overton (Flint) JONES, Hard Tudor Head Married M 40 1861 Joiner Wrexham Denbighshire JONES, Mary Jane Wife Married F 52 1849 Bangor Flintshire
marriage Year of Registration: 1894 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Ellesmere County: Flintshire, Shropshire Volume: 6a Harold Tudor Jones 1894 Ellesmere Flintshire, Shropshire Mary Jane Jones 1894 Ellesmere Flintshire, Shropshire marriage cert on ancestry sept 18 1894 he was a soldier age 34 she was age 40 harold's father is robert jones coach builder mary jane's father is josiah Jones bootmaker
1871 Wales Census about Harold T Jones Name: Harold T Jones Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales Civil parish: Gourton Ecclesiastical parish: Wrexham County/Island: Denbighshire Country: Wales Registration district: Wrexham Sub-registration district: Wrexham ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household schedule number: 4 Household Members: Name Age Mary Bellis 70 Edward Bellis 36 Margaret Booth 30 Anne Bellis 17 Harold T Jones 11 William Booth 6 John Kennedy 21 England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Harold Tudor Jones Name: Harold Tudor Jones Year of Registration: 1860 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Wrexham (1837-1974) County:
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 10:08 |
Even if just for elimination:
Births Sep 1900 Tudor Harold William Oswestry 6a 673
Births Jun 1902 Tudor Harold Oswestry 6a 704
I can account for Harold William in the 1911, but not Harold 1902 - no obvious death for the latter.
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 11:01 |
That was my other thought that it could be his birth name. Maybe from a sibling of HWT senior and named for an ancestor.
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 11:26 |
This is interesting as there is an Overton link with others in the household.
He is a joiner which could be on the way to coach builder
1881 census - household transcription Person: JONES, Harold F Address: Tanners Row, Overton (Flint) WALKER, John Head Married M 47 1834 Labourer Worthenbury Flintshire Wales WALKER, Ellin Wife Married F 45 1836 Labourer Wife Overton Flintshire Wales WALKER, Ellen Daughter Single F 18 1863 Washing Overton Flintshire Wales WALKER, John Son Single M 16 1865 Sadler Overton Flintshire Wales WALKER, Jane Daughter Single F 14 1867 Assist In Washing Overton Flintshire Wales WALKER, Cate Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar Overton Flintshire Wales APPLEYARD, Richard Lodger Single M 22 1859 Joiner Chester T. Perran JONES, Harold F Lodger Single M 20 1861 Joiner Wrexham ? Buildings
|
|
Choccy
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 11:50 |
the Ancestry service records posted relate to this Harold T Jones -
1911
JONES, John Head Married M 49 1862 General Labourer Shotton Flintshire VIEW JONES, Eliza Jane Wife Married 19 years F 43 1868 Penzance Cornwall VIEW JONES, Annie Ellen Daughter Single F 19 1892 Falmouth Cornwall VIEW JONES, William John Son Single M 17 1894 Sheet Mill Worker Falmouth Cornwall VIEW JONES, Geore Gordon Son Single M 16 1895 Sheet Mill Worker Falmouth Cornwall VIEW JONES, Harold Thomas Son M 13 1898 School Falmouth Cornwall VIEW HEWITT, Joseph Boarder Single M 20 1891 Sheet Mill Worker Brickley Flintshire VIEW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG14 Piece: 33967 Reference: RG14PN33967 RG78PN1962 RD620 SD1 ED4 SN38 Registration District: Hawarden Sub District: Hawarden Enumeration District: 4 Parish: Hawarden Address: 2 Wellington St Shotton County: Flintshire
this is the other one -
1911
JONES, Mary Jane Head Widow F 61 1850 Charwoman Overton Flints VIEW JONES, Harrold Tudor Foster Son M 10 1901 Wrexham Denbs VIEW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG14 Piece: 16164 Reference: RG14PN16164 RG78PN999 RD351 SD1 ED1 SN99 Registration District: Ellesmere Sub District: Overton Enumeration District: 1 Parish: Overton Address: Turning Row Overton Ellesmere County: Shropshire
Mary Jane states (crossed out) married 16 years and 1 child born and still living
|
|
Choccy
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 12:02 |
British Army Service Records 1760-1913 Transcription First name(s): Harold Tudor Last name: JONES Calculated year of birth: 1861 Parish of birth: Wrexham Town of birth: Wrexham County of birth: North Wales Age at attestation: 23 years 10 months Attestation date: 20 June 1884 Attestation corps: Royal Artillery Attestation soldier number: 43170 Discharge rank: Discharge corps: Discharge soldier number: The National Archives reference: WO97 / 3174 / 90
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 12:06 |
I thought that was not right too Choccy. That was extracted from his tree.
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 12:25 |
thanks choccy that confirms soldier occupation on the marriage
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 16:41 |
fmp version of 1871
1871 census - household transcription Person: JONES, Harold T Address: Gredington Arms, Gourton BELLIS, Mary Head F 70 1801 Denbighshire BELLIS, Edward Son M 36 1835 Denbighshire BOOTH, Margaret Daughter F 30 1841 Denbighshire BELLIS, Anne Granddaughter F 17 1854 Denbighshire JONES, Harold T Grandson M 11 1860 Denbighshire BOOTH, William Grandson M 6 1865 London KENNEDY, John Servant M 21 1850 Ireland
|
|
Dea
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 16:43 |
I have been 'slogging' at this all day LK but am going around in circles !!
I will keep at it !
Dea Xxx
|
|
Dea
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 16:44 |
Do you know for a fact that that is him on 1911 with Mary Jane ?
Dea x
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 16:46 |
1861 Address: 20, Chester Street, Wrexham Regis, Wrexham JONES, Robert Head Married M 33 1828 Coach Body Maker Master Wrexham Denbighshire JONES, Elizabeth Wife Married F 36 1825 Denbighshire JONES, Llewellyn Son M 3 1858 Wrexham Denbighshire JONES, Harnold J Son M 0 (8M) 1861 Wrexham Denbighshire
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 16:48 |
Mary Jane was unable to read and write so the form was filled in for her. Is it possible theat Harold is her actual son and not Foster son?
|
|
Dea
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 16:52 |
It certainly looks that way LK, unless he was married before and this was his son by his first wife??
Dea x
|
|
Dea
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 16:55 |
I also think that 1911 census says that she had 'nil' children ???
There is a '1' at the side but I don't understand what it means??
Dea x
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 18:21 |
There are some certificates on the ancestry tree. They were both single at time of marriage and she was 40 so possible they did nnot have children. marriage cert says Robert is Htj seniors father and 1861 gives a sibling.
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 22:00 |
re HTL JUNIOR SO IF THAT WAS THE INCORRECT RECORD ABOVE THEIR MUST BE A CORRECT ONE
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/old_photos/pages/wwii.shtml?12
Michael Jones,from London. Photo No:12 preparing for war, and photo, No 13; Mr Harrold Tudor Jones on the left of that photo the youngest of the two with either is Dad, or my uncle, aged 16; joined The army very young to be with his family. Photo No 12@13 was taken 1916 just before the 38th (Welch) Div, the 1st Royal Welch Fusiliers, went to Russia, Mametz Woods late: 1916. The Army was sometimes called Loyd George's Welsh Army recruitments. The regiment had a very famous person attached to the Div. a (Lt Siegfried Sasson) Poet and a officer of the best quality, sometimes called (Mad Jack) the reasons will speak for itself if you read up on him. Dad won the M.M. with a white ribbon attached Campaigns in Russia, then on to the Somme. He also was in a special unit which he told me about when he came over the ridge to the Somme. Perhaps the unit he was in was not too known. But anyone that has any knowledge of the unit. They used Flashing, Angels, over the Somme to frighten the Belgains a very frightening factor just before the Battle began on that fatal morning of the battle. If there is any more information that I can give to you about my Dad and Uncle, please write. Tue Jul 25 07:59:09 2006
M. J. Jones Re photo No 12. Second from the left in the top rank is my father the rest in that top rank are related to one another. My father, a Harold Tudor Jones, was 16 when he joined the army to be with his family in the 1914/1918 war, joining in 1916 then going to Mametz Wood in Russia where it is said by him that he won the Military Medal by notifying a block house H.Q. that there was going to be a Barrage attack on the wood at Mametz so that they all could leave the post. Dad was a runner at the time. Thu Jul 13 17:20:31 2006
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 22:38 |
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:iIJw96chqIAJ:www.ellesmere.info/news/merenews/Issue34.pdf+%22harold+tudor+jones%22+WREXHAM&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShluz699ue-_eXSwOGjSHo1u0axNrZ614mlCX-B5GLTweLwnCIr_Zzeq6ehE74Rzd2gdeMqe6hrIvMdtrE98oU3WghBcYSpAyoUry6nr_eJaJp7drqQoR4SGr8HAFMjtf2jAKh0&sig=AHIEtbTtkj8rzjj-paHJ_l_w2UyjZmOUFQ just looking at this mary jane had a sister married to james jones. they had a son Daniel Bartlam Jones of the same age as harold junior
I can see no sign of emily james or Daniel in 1911 please read link as cannot copy onto here
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 23:03 |
1851 Address: Greddington Arms BELLIS, Edward Married M 66 1785 Victualler Llanypull Denbighshire BELLIS, Mary Wife Married F 50 1801 Innkeepers Wife Llanypull Denbighshire BELLIS, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 18 1833 Assistant Llanypull Denbighshire BELLIS, Edward Son Unmarried M 16 1835 Labourer Llanypull Denbighshire BELLIS, Margaret Daughter F 12 1839 Scholar Llanypull Denbighshire GRONOW, Charles Servant Unmarried M 30 1821 Labourer Abenbury Denbighshire
1861 Address: Llanypwll, Goveton BELLIS, Mary Head Widow F 60 1801 Inn Keeper GourtonDenbighshire BELLIS, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 29 1832 Gourton Denbighshire BELLIS, Edward Son Unmarried M 26 1835 Gourton Denbighshire BELLIS, Margaret Daughter Unmarried F 21 1840 Gourton Denbighshire ..., Ann Granddaughter F 6 1855 Gourton Denbighshire
|
|
LadyKira
|
Report
|
21 Feb 2011 23:20 |
Thanks for help so far MC Choccy Chrisho And Dea.
|