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I had a query re this family a few days ago which was sorted out on here thanks to some kind researchers.
I have another mystery to solve!
James Murray and Janet Little are the parents of Isabella Murray b1825 in Westerkirk, Dumfries. (Scottish BMD confirms this).
My query is re the death of Janet Little who later became Janet Murray.
From the 1841 and 1851 censuses we have a dob of 1786 or 1791.
She married James Murray (unkown date).
In 1841, 1851 and 1861 she resided at Westerkirk, Dumfries.
She was a widow in 1861.
I have been searching for the death record.
The closest entry I can find, and have viewed onscreen, is :
Death : 30 Jan 1863
Name : Janet Cowan, formerly Murray. Widow of George Cowan (deceased).
Parents: Peter Little and Helen Little nee Thomson
Died at Westerkirk
Informant : David Murray (Son)
Age : 81
What puzzles me and puts doubt in my mind that this is the correct record is as follows.
I thought maybe after the death of James Murray, somewhere between 1851 and 1861, Janet may have married George Cowan. Can't find any proof. Also can't find the death of a George Cowan. Presumably all these events would have happened in Westerkirk as Janet never seems to have left there.
Another mystery, Informant was a son David. No person of this name on any censuses.
I need someone with a logical brain to help me proove or disproove that I have the correct death record.
Many thanks.
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Looking on the LDS site there seem to be at least 2 Janet Littles born in Westerkirk around that time. The same site also gives 3 marriages of interest!
A Janet Little married John Murray 16/03/1804 and had 2 children Peter b1806 and Joan 1809.
Possibly the same Janet then married George Cowan 08/04/1814 and had a further 5 children.
Another Janet Little married James Murray 29/11/1807 children Matthew 1808, Janet 1811, Mary 1816, Helen 1817, Jean/Jane 1821 and Isabella 1825.
No Davids anywhere though.
Does any of this help, or just confuse you further?
Katie
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Thank you Katie. On the contrary I think things are much clearer.
It's great that you found the marriage of JL to James Murray. Looking at the children I had already found in the censuses this is certainly my family.
Finding the death of a Janet Cowan formerly Murray was a red herring. From what you say, it looks like the JL/John Murray/Cowan marriages are the ones on my death registration and are not those of MY Janet. I can forget about these marriages. I think just to confirm things, I will try to look for the death of a John Murray prior to the marriage to a Cowan.
Thank you so much for your input. It's suprising how easy it is to make wrong assumptions and shoot quickly down the wrong path.
Thank you also for reminding me about the LDS site. I always forget about it, even though it has helped me many times in the past.
Best wishes,
Bryn
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Possible death for your Janet Little ... the year before the other.
Janet Little / Murray
1862
County: Dumfries
District: Westerkirk
This is just a guess ... based on son, Matthew Murray being named after his paternal grandfather.
Birth: James Murray
1786
Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries
Father: Matthew Murray
Mother: Mary Telfor
(submitted record from the IGI)
Marriage:
Matthew Murray and Mary Telfor
4 January 1774
Canonbie, Dumfries
(extracted record)
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Helen, thank you. I think you have got the correct James.
On the 1841 and 1851 censuses, James Murray and wife Janet and family were living at Bentpath. Now I don't know if this is an area or maybe it's a house name. If it's a house name then that's great as it confirms continuation. If it's an area then I'm not so sure, but still likely.
I have looked on the LDS site but can't find the birth of JM in 1786, maybe I am not searching correctly. Can I ask you if you obtained all the other info from LDS?
Many thanks Helen. I wish you goodnight. It's past midnight here. I will resume tomorrow.
Regards, Bryn
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Yes, I got all the information for James and his family from the LDS site.
Unfortunately, they are submitted records ... so proceed with caution. However they have such detailed dates on the births and christenings, It almost seems someone somewhere has actually viewed original records.
The marriage for Matthew Murray and Mary Telfor is an extracted marriage record ... so this is a definite record.
These appear to be other children to Matthew Murray and Mary Telfor. Among them you can see James' birth. (10th March 1786)
(I see James and Janet's second daughter was called Mary ... this may be another clue to confirming this to be the correct family)
Father: Matthew Murray
Mother: Mary Telfor
1. Agnes Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: NOV 1774 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
2. Jean Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 15 MAR 1775 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
3. Margaret Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 12 JUN 1778 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
4. Sarah Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 1782 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
5. Mary Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 09 DEC 1784 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
6. James Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 10 MAR 1786 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
7. Matthew Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 FEB 1788 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
8. Margaret Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 26 MAY 1790 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
9. David Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 29 AUG 1793 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
10. Isabel Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 10 AUG 1797 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
11. James Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 10 MAR 1786 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
12. Matthew Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 FEB 1788 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
13. David Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 29 AUG 1793 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
14. Agnes Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: NOV 1774 Bentpath, Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
15. Jean Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 15 MAR 1775 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
16. Margaret Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 12 JUN 1778 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
17. Sarah Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 1782 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
18. AGNES MURRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 24 NOV 1774 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
19. Mary Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 09 DEC 1784 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
20. Isabel Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 10 AUG 1797 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
21. Margaret Murray - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 26 MAY 1790 Westerkirk, Dumfries, Scotland
These are a bit mixed up and some duplicated so you will have to work your way through them to try and sort into some kind of order.
If you want to bring up all the children to view as a group ... go to the IGI on the LDS site. Put the parents names into the top right hand box and then British Isles, Scotland, Dumfries, into the bottom left hand box ... and all the children born to this couple will appear. A handy wee hint on finding siblings to the person you're looking for.
If you google ' Bentpath Dumfries' you can read up on this area in Dumfries. It appears to have been a small scattered village within the parish of Westerkirk. Only eight dwellings showing up on the 1841 census for Bentpath.
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Thank you again Helen. I now have a great deal of info to work with. These are certainly my people.
Thanks for info re LDS site. I have been exploring. A host of info but needs time to sift through the search results.
Strange to hear that Bentpath had so few dwellings in 1841. My James Murray is shown as "innkeeper and farmer" on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. Looks like he didnt have many customers and didn't become a millionaire !!
Many thanks again.
Regards
Bryn
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Helen,
You said in a msg that this might be the possible death of Janet Murray.:
Janet Little / Murray
1862
County: Dumfries
District: Westerkirk
I have searched LDS and cant find this record anywhere.
Help !!
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Bryn,
The death referred to is to be found on Scotlandspeople.
www.Scotlandspeople.gov.uk
£6 for 30 credits
1 credit to view the index
5 credits to download the certificate
I found a good site for Dumfries which carries the death dates for James Murray and Janet Little
www.langholm-online.co.uk
The site has a newspaper index from the local newspaper of the time:
Death: James Murray – Innkeeper
At Bentpath on 29th July 1859 … age 74
Janet Little, relict of James Murray, Innkeeper
At Bentpath, Eskdale on 16th July 1862 … age 76
If you choose to download the death certificate for James Murray, it would register his parents names … allowing you to verify the connection to Matthew Murray and Mary Telfor.
Helen
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Thanks Helen. You are a mine of useful information.
Those newspaper entries are a find. I have been to the langholm site but nowhere can I see a link to anywhere that might have the newspaper index. Can you point me in the right direction?
Sorry to be such a pain.
Bryn
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Sorry Bryn,
That was the wrong web address I sent.
It should have been:
www.langholmarchive.com/index.php
You should be able to access the newspaper index and various other bits and pieces including old photographs.
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Hi Bryn, I'm an apparent descendant of Jane Murray, daughter of James Murray and Janet Little. Daughter Jane Murray had two children with a John Wilson in 1851 and 1853. One of the children, another John, is my great-great grandfather.
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Welcome to the boards John.
Bryn posted over 7 years ago and so is unlikely to be looking for replies now.
Try clicking on his name to send a message through the GR system, they can let him know there's one for him if he still has the same email address that he registered with them.
You then have to hope he can receive it and is in a position to reply.
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