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Hi (again!) I've managed to get hold of various documents for the family that I 'think' is the one I'm looking for but can anyone advise on just how far you can go to make sure you have the right people! I started with a marriage cert between my great grandparents which stated the following:
Frederick Nicholls, father William Henry Nicholls (deceased), occupation house builder. My grandmother was told as a child that her father's family were from Gloucester. Having looked at the 1901 census, there are no 'William' and 'Frederick' as father and Son in Gloucester but there is a William and Fred of roughly the right age(a year out). Having obtained 'Fred's birth cert, the full name is still just 'Fred', there is no mention of William having the middle name 'Henry' and the occupation is coalminer (as on census). William was in his late 40s on the census so I find it very hard to believe that he would have suddenly changed career from coalminer to house builder (unless this Fred chap was a bit above himself and was ashamed!!!!) My grandmother remembered him to be a bit arrogant so I suppose he could have pretended his father was in the building trade and formalised his name to 'Frederick'.....! He was himself a bricklayer so this bit was true. And he never had any contact with his family that my grandmother was aware of. Anyhoo, what I'm trying to say (not very briefly!) is that should I just presume this family is my grandmother's family??? Any advice would be greatly received as I obviously don't know what I'm doing!!

Kelly x

Hi Kelly,

I DO hope you don't mind but I found your message very difficult to follow just in one 'lump', so I have taken the liberty of setting it out a little clearer so that I, and others will be able to follow it easier and 'set to work,:

.......................................

Hi (again!) I've managed to get hold of various documents for the family that I 'think' is the one I'm looking for but can anyone advise on just how far you can go to make sure you have the right people!

I started with a marriage cert between my great grandparents which stated the following:
Frederick Nicholls, father William Henry Nicholls (deceased), occupation house builder.

My grandmother was told as a child that her father's family were from Gloucester.

Having looked at the 1901 census, there are no 'William' and 'Frederick' as father and Son in Gloucester, BUT, there is a William and Fred of roughly the right age(a year out).

Having obtained 'Fred's birth cert, the full name is still just 'Fred'. There is no mention of William having the middle name 'Henry' and the occupation is coalminer (as on census).

William was in his late 40s on the census so I find it very hard to believe that he would have suddenly changed career from coalminer to house builder (unless this Fred chap was a bit above himself and was ashamed!!!!)

My grandmother remembered him to be a bit arrogant so I suppose he could have pretended his father was in the building trade and formalised his name to 'Frederick'.....! - He was himself a bricklayer so this bit was true.

He never had any contact with his family that my grandmother was aware of.

What I'm trying to say (not very briefly!) is that should I just presume this family is my grandmother's family???

Any advice would be greatly received as I obviously don't know what I'm doing!!

Kelly x
.............................

Hope I haven't offended,

Dea x

When and where did the marriage take place?

Could you give ALL details please, including ages, occupations, addresses, and witness details please?

Dea x

I presume this is the family you think could be yours in 1901 - The only thing that I would say - living fairly locally - is that this would probalbly be referred to as the Forest of Dean rather than Gloucester.

1901

Name: William Nicholls
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Civil Parish: East Dean
Ecclesiastical parish: Woodside St Stephen
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: Coal Miner

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Westbury on Severn
Sub registration district: East Dean
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 300
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Nicholls 12
Elizabeth Nicholls 8
Ellen Nicholls 39
Flo Nicholls 3
Fred Nicholls 6
Sidney Nicholls 19
William Nicholls 47
William Nicholls 14

Dea, thanks, and no, not offended!!

Marriage details:

District of Totnes, Devon
17 Aug 1925

Frederick Nicholls age 29
Bricklayer
2 Jubilee Terrace, Dartmouth
Father: William Henry Nicholls (deceased)
Father's Occ: House Builder

Dulcia Ethelyn Rowe age 21
'Delamare', Keep Lane, Dartmouth
Father: Frederick Reed Rowe
Father's Occ: Chauffeur

Witnesses: Percy M and Elsie Chaddock

I do know that Dulcia was not 21 but 17 having obtained her birth cert and her 'true' birthdate was supported by my grandmother. I'm thinking Fred/Frederick also lied about his age as if the person on the census is the correct one, he would have been a month off 31, not 29. Obviously 17 and 30 doesn't look as 'proper' as 29 and 21!

Any help would be wonderful!

Kelly

K,

Yes, this is the family. My grandmother was told that her father was from the Berkeley Vale area of Gloucestershire, which looking on maps, seems to be roughly around the same place - is that right?

Kelly

Kelly

The Vale of Berkley is on the opposite side of the River Severn from the Forest of Dean and Littledean where the Fred and William lived. Its near Sharpness - I should add that the river is a wide estuary at this point

Kay

Kay,

In that case, I'm completely lost and my relatives are a pain in the proverbials!!!!

Kelly

Kelly

My granmother told me that she came from the Isle of Man and it took years to prove that in fact she came from Liverpool and her father came from the island - so the Berkely connection may have come from a previous generation

Kay

Kay,

Never thought it would be this difficult!! Especially as it seems this particular strand of my family are turning out to be keen liars!! He could be from anywhere I suppose! This is my prob - I may have keyed into some random family that have no connection with me at all!!! And since I'm kinda new to all this, I'm not really sure of how to go about it!!

Oh well! Thanks anyway!
Kelly

Kelly

I did find this birth which is on the edge of the area but I can't see and obvious person who ties in on the census - may be a complete red herring

Kay

Births Dec 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicholls Frederick Dursley 6a 217

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That's strange as I have just found this :

Births Jun
NICHOLLS William Henry Dursley 6a 183

Was trying to check it through !!

Dea x

Dea

Was that in 1854?

Kay

Yes - 1854 - I cut and pasted but didn't know it had missed a bit off!!

Apologies,

Dea x

Kay,

Thanks but I've already looked at that one. Ordered 3 birth certs including that one. Father's name was Charles. Another had a father called George. And then the one from 'the' family already mentioned.

There was only one other Fred/Frederick from Gloucestershire from 1894-1896 and he was born in Stroud. Suppose will be trying that one next!

Kelly

If the census is correct - this COULD be the marriage:

Marriages Dec 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EVANS Sarah Alice M Dursley 6a 404 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! see update !
HODGES George Dursley 6a 404
****NICHOLLS William Dursley 6a 404
Smith Henry Dursley 6a 404
SMITH George Henry Dursley 6a 404
****Spencer Ellen Matilda Dursley 6a 404

Dea x

UPDATE !! - Forget this marriage - I have worked out that 'this' William married the Sarah A M Evans above - he was a farmer's son !! - NOT your one !! (another red herring !!!! - though at least now discounted !)

Dea x

Ok - but that wouldnt be the William and Ellen from the East Dean family then as her maiden name was Morgan.

Is there anyway you can work out if William Nicholls and Ellen Spencer had a son called Frederick???!

Just re-read your last mail; hence ignore my previous mail!

Thank you for helping but I don't want to put you out! I'm already reasling how time consuming(and expensive) this can be!!