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Hi Catherine,

You found some terrific information, especially regarding William (snr) b.1783 two marriages and his father Thomas also likely two marriages. Will have to see if I can find the first wife of Thomas. Do you know if there were alot of Nish families in Sorbie back in the late 1700's? If not, that would make my deductions a little safer.

Interesting about George Wilson (brother) it doesn't seem likely does it. But you just never know, always best to hang onto information.

Thank you for helping me with this research, this would have taken me weeks to pull it all together.

If you come up with anything else for this family, I would be very appreciative. I will keep on with it and maybe some hot matches might come of it.

Kind regards
Kaye

Mary Nish (the half sister) in 1841:-

Name: Mary Nish
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Female
Where born: Wigtownshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Sorbie
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Sorbie Village
Parish Number: 897
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Nish 35
Walter MacLean 7 (doesn't state the relationship)

on the same census page as William, Grace and family.

Walter's christening:-
WALTER LAURIE MCLEAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 27 OCT 1833 Sorbie, Wigtown, Scotland
Father: ALEXANDER MCLEAN
Mother: MARY NISH

so Walter was the illegitimate son of Mary.

Trying to tie up some loose ends!

1861 census shows:-
George Wilson 38 - Brother born: Penninghame, Wigtown
(Shepherd)
as Grace was Head of Household, then he should be her brother. As they didn't have the same surname could be they were half brother/sister. (Same mother).

Found this also on familysearch.org:-
GEORGE WILSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 24 OCT 1822 Penninghame, Wigtown, Scotland
Father: DAVID WILSON
Mother: JANET PARKER

marriage for this couple:-
DAVID WILSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 09 JAN 1820 Penninghame, Wigtown, Scotland
Spouse: JANET PARKER


found him in 1841 (to see age of father):-
Name: David Wilson
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Where born: Wigtownshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Penninghame
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Clachan Of Penningham
Occupation: Ag Lab
Parish Number: 895
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
David Wilson 45
Janet Wilson 45
George Wilson 18
David Wilson 4
Elisabeth Wilson 11
Janet Wilson 10
Margaret Wilson 5
John Neilson 17

so father born 1796 - Grace was born abt. 1803 so couldn't be David's daughter.
This one is a bit of a mystery.
Better keep him on file for future reference, till you know exactly how they are related.

1851 census shows:-
Mary Nish 48 - Half Sister - born: Sorbie, Wigtonshire
(Formerly House Servant )

Had a look on familysearch.org and found this which could be a clue to parents of William (father):-
MARY DAVIDSON NISH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 13 APR 1803 Sorbie, Wigtown, Scotland
Father: THOMAS NISH
Mother: ELISABETH GRAHAM

marriage for this couple:-
THOMAS NISH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 15 JUN 1802 Sorbie, Wigtown, Scotland
Spouse: ELISABETH GRAHAM

If Mary was William's half sister then that would mean that Thomas was their father (having the same surname) and Elisabeth would have been Thomas' second wife. So we now need to find the first.

hi kaye

glad to hear that mother was grace spro(a)t that means we are on the right track.

carole

The census records I found were the only ones that fit with father William and mother Grace.
Are they the correct ones or not? I would say yes.
If, as you say, mothers maiden name on Australian certs are shown and he states his mother as mn Sproat, then it certainly is the correct one.
Why did he state his father as butcher on his marriage cert.? Only he can answer that.

Have narrowed her death down:-

Surname: Nish
Forename: Grace
Other Surnames: Sproat
Year: 1868
Birth Year: 1803
County: Wigtown
District: Sorbie

edit:-
There is another Grace Nish that died about the same time that I came across whilst doing my search :-
Surname: Nish
Forename: Grace
Mothers maiden name: Sproat
Year: 1863
Birth Year: 1843
County: Wigtown
District: Sorbie

This one would seem to be the daughter of William and Grace and therfore your William's sister.

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

I found the site really easy to use. You have to register to use but that doesn't cost anything.

FAQ
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The surname search on the Homepage is free and covers all records, allowing you to check how many records of a particular surname appear in the various datasets, before you commit to payment.

Access to the wills and testaments index and the coats of arms index is free of charge. Viewing full-colour, digital images of an original will, testament or inventory costs 5GBP per document, regardless of length. Viewing a full-colour, digital images of a coat of arms costs 10GBP per document, regardless of length.

Access to statutory, OPR and census indexes costs 6GBP. For this fee, you will receive 30 "page credits" which are valid for 90 consecutive days. Viewing a page of index results costs 1 credit and each page will contain up to 25 search results. Viewing an image costs 5 credits (equivalent to 1GBP). Your session begins when payment has been authorised and additional credits may be purchased in 6GBP increments. The session will restart with each new credit purchase.

I'll have a look to see if I can narrow down a death for Grace!

Catherine and Julie,

I can't thank you both enough for the wonderful information you have provided to me. Thank you. I have a few days off work this week so will up date my tree and see what questions may arise from this. It takes me a while to get my head around things. I'm just amazed when I see helpers on this site seem 'to nutt out' things so very quickly. I don't have internet at home so will be online up to 5.00pm today (Aust) and back online again Monday.

Catherine, I will have to research more into Isabella's mother being Catherine Black and see if I can find something to confirm this. You are probably right that I haven't found the right birth for Isabella.

Julie, thank you for all the AER information, that is terrific information.

How easy is it to use Scotland People, I had joined Find My Past and I found my credits went in a flash just by not being being computer savvy on that particular site, is Scots People easy to use?

Catherine, do you know when Grace Sproat (Nish) died?

Even though William Snr occupation was noted as 'butcher' on son's marriage certificate but his occupation in the Scot Census in 1841 say 'Tailor' which one would you feel is more than likely correct as the occupations are worlds apart. Do you agree that we definately have the right family in Wigstown as it sure seems to be.

Thank you again.
Warm regards Kaye

Mary Ethel Nish b. 1902 ; d. 1982 as INGLIS

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Mary Ethel Nish
Name: Mary Ethel Nish
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1931 <<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Kooyong
Subdistrict: Kew
OCCUPATION .. Nurse
ADDRESS .. 283 Cotham Rd., Kew

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Mary Ethel Inglis
Name: Mary Ethel Inglis
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1936 <<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Kooyong
Subdistrict: Kew
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. 32 Highbury Grove, Kew
with Lindsay Ballantyne Anderson INGLIS, Med. Pract. ... (Doctor)

Jessie Nish b. 1899 ; d. 1982 ; m. 1920 Ernest Charles TOLLEY
--> Albert William b. abt 1921 ; d. 1942 Ballarat

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Ernest Charles Tolley
Name: Ernest Charles Tolley
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1924 <<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Melbourne
Subdistrict: Hotham
OCCUPATION .. -- Driver
ADDRESS .. 12 Collie St., Morth Melb.
with Jessie, h/d

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Jessie Tolley
Name: Jessie Tolley
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1931 <<<<<<< & 1936 <<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Bourke
Subdistrict: Coburg
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. Greenwood St., W7.... ( same address as mother)

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Grace Isabella Nish
Name: Grace Isabella Nish
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1919 <<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Kooyong
Subdistrict: Glenferrie
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. 397 Glenferrie Rd., Glenferrie

Grace Isabella Nish b. 1897 ; d. 1979 as HARDIDGE

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Grace Isobel Hardidge
Name: Grace Isobel Hardidge
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1931 <<<<<<< & 1936 <<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Kooyong
Subdistrict: Camberwell
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. Regent St., Burwood
with William Henry, --

Nicholas McCulloch b. 1890 ; d. 1945 ; m. 1910 Frederick William BENBOW
--> Henry William b. 1910
-->Leslie Richard b. 1911 ; d. 1913
--> Iris b. abt 1924 ; d. 1973 as MITCHELL

This first entry is before their marriage..
Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Frederick William Benbow
Name: Frederick William Benbow
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1909 <<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Indi
Subdistrict: Rutherglen
OCCUPATION .. Miner
ADDRESS .. Great Southern

Name: Frederick William Benbow
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1914 <<<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Flinders
Subdistrict: Wonthaggi
OCCUPATION .. Miner
ADDRESS .. (Reid Cres), Wonthaggi
with Nicholas McCulloch, h/d

Name: Frederick William Benbow
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1919 <<<<<<< & 1924 <<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Flinders
Subdistrict: Wonthaggi
OCCUPATION .. Miner
ADDRESS .. North Wonthaggi
with Nicholas McCulloch, h/d

Name: Frederick William Benbow
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931 <<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Heywood
OCCUPATION .. Labourer
ADDRESS .. Heywood
with Nicholas McCulloch, h/d

Name: Frederick William Benbow
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936 <<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Portland
OCCUPATION .. Farmer
ADDRESS .. Heathmere
with Nicholas McCulloch, h/d

Eliza Winifred Nish b. 1889 ; d. 1965 ; m. 1910 Ernest Arthur PIRANI
--> Raymond Edward b. 1911
--> Frederick Ernest b. 1913

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Ernest Arthur Pirani
Name: Ernest Arthur Pirani
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1914 <<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Fawkner
Subdistrict: Prahran
OCCUPATION .. Railway Employee
ADDRESS .. 22 Grattan St.
with Eliza Winifred, h/d

Name: Ernest Arthur Pirani
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1919 <<<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Fawkner
Subdistrict: Prahran
OCCUPATION .. Railway Employee
ADDRESS .. 21 Grattan St.
with Eliza Winifred, h/d

Name: Ernest Arthur Pirani
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1924 <<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Fawkner
Subdistrict: Malvern
OCCUPATION .. Engine Driver
ADDRESS .. 9 Soudan St., Malvern
with Eliza Winifred, h/d

Name: Ernest Arthur Pirani
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Fawkner
Subdistrict: Prahran
OCCUPATION .. Engine Driver
ADDRESS .. 13 Porter St.
with Eliza Winifred, h/d

there was a second entry for 1931...

Name: Ernest Arthur Pirani
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Fawkner
Subdistrict: South Yarra
OCCUPATION .. Engine Driver
ADDRESS .. 37 Airlie St.
with Eliza Winifred, h/d

Name: Ernest Arthur Pirani
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936 <<<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Fawkner
Subdistrict: Prahran
OCCUPATION .. Engine Driver
ADDRESS .. 47 Porter St.
with Eliza Winifred, --
& Raymond Edward, Mechanic.

Don't have any credits left for Scotlands People web site but did manage to narrow a death search down to find William Nish, (William's father)

Surname: Nish
Forename: William
County: Wigtown
District: Sorbie
Year: 1858
Age: 75
which makes date of birth: 1783

If you have an account with this site it would probably help to view a copy of the record.

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about William Nish
Name: William Nish
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1914 <<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Indi
Subdistrict: Rutherglen
OCCUPATION .. -- no occupation
ADDRESS .. Chiltern West
With Isabella, home duties (h/d)

This is the only entry for William (snr) although Isabella was on the 1909 registra at the same address.

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Isabella Nish
Name: Isabella Nish
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1919 <<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Maribyrnong
Subdistrict: Moonee Ponds
OCCUPATION .. Nurse
ADDRESS .. 93 Hall St.

Name: Isabella Nish
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1931 <<<<<<< & 1936 <<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Bourke
Subdistrict: Coburg
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. Greenwood St. W7


I am assuming that this is for William junior as senior would have been 69, and hopefully retired, and the address is different than that of Isabella

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about William Nish
Name: William Nish
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1909 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Indi
Subdistrict: Rutherglen
OCCUPATION .. Labourer
ADDRESS .. Great Northern.

Name: William Nish
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936 <<<<<<<<<<<
State: Victoria
District: Indi
Subdistrict: Rutherglen
OCCUPATION .. Farmer
ADDRESS .. Peechelba
with Helen Gladys

Kaye,
Just thought.
If the marriage cert. says that mother of Isabella, was Catherine Hall nee "Black", then surely neither births you have found for Isabella will be the correct one.

So the info found would seem to be all correct, however, if William's father is noted as being Butcher why in 1841 is he noted as Tailor? Could be a transcription error of course.

Checked 1851 census to see William's occupation and it is noted as:-
Occupation: Tailor (master)

Hi Julie,

Thanks would love to have the AER info for this family.

I did a search of the Vic BDM and sure enough Nicholas McCulloch Nish is a female and she married Frederick Benbow. Family history goss tells the story that William wanted a son, maybe he did the birth registration (smile). She was apparently nicknamed Nickles.

I also did a Vic BDM search on William's death for 1916 but the search tells me that details are quite limited on the certificate, so I decided not to get it - showed both father and mother unknown. (1916 reg No. 3574)

Thanks again.
Kind regards Kaye

Do you have William's death certificate ?
It may also help with extra info..

Name .. Wm Nish
Year .. 1916
Age 76yrs ......(b. abt 1840)
District .. R'glen
Reg. no. .. 3574

Found him on Australian Electoral Rolls,(AER) of 1901-1936, but he had retired by then, so no help with his occupation.

Do you have, or do you want the AER info. for this family ?
It gives their address and occupation.
Let me know if you want it.

Was surprised to see that Nicholas Mc Culloch Nish was female !

Alan, Catherine, Carole, Rootgatherer, Lynne from up North, and Julie,

Thank you all so very much for your fantastic research.

I will order William's marriage certificate to Isabella Hall in Australia go from there, hopefully it will have all the details I need to confirm who his parent/s were.

Appreciate the sites and other advice you have provided, will be following up. Thank you Carole, I will email you.

UPDATED POST - I just downloaded the 1889 Marriage Certificate for William Nish (son) and Isabella Hall, didn't know it was so easy online from the Victorian BDM (Aust). His age at marriage was 49yrs making his birth age 1840. Isabella's was 26yrs.

It states William's father was William Nish and mother was Grace Sproat. William (father) occupation was Butcher (deceased).

William (son) occupation listed on marriage certificate is hard to read ... looks like Mauer or Mauen but google doesn't bring up an occupation of these likely spellings, any ideas.

It states William (son) was born Scotland, doesnt say which town.

Isabella's parents were William Hall (occupation Gentleman, deceased) and mother was Catherine Hall nee Black on the marriage certificate. Although doing the Vic BDM search there are two Isabella Hall's born 1863 and 1864 and the mother's maiden names are Catherine Webster and Catherine Bowman. Unsure which is correct at this time.

If anyone can help me with further family history details that would be great.


With thanks
Kaye