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Marian
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7 Sep 2008 02:57 |
Trying to find birthplace for James Stuart born 1835, an accountant and ship's purser, who married Elizabeth Jane Cowell when he was 46. After marriage his home was in Liverpool. His father was also James. Any help at all would be great.
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Clitheroelass
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7 Sep 2008 07:33 |
.for reference this is the marraige
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cowell Elizabeth Jane W. Derby 8b 551 STUART James West Derby 8b 551
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Clitheroelass
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7 Sep 2008 07:44 |
do you have them on any census , did they have any children.
Tracy
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Clitheroelass
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7 Sep 2008 08:14 |
this is his death ref, struggling to find on the census
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983 Birth, Marriage & Death View Image Name: James N H F Stuart Birth: abt 1835 Death: Dec 1917 - West Derby, Lancashire
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Clitheroelass
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7 Sep 2008 08:46 |
It would be better if you made these 2 threads as one for search purposes regards Tracy
Henry Cowell & Elizabeth Jane Cowell were originally from Wicklow. Elizabeth, born about 1855, was the daughter of Henry, and she married James NHF Stuart in Liverpool. She was a sewing maid, then ran her own sewing business in Walton-on-the-Hill while her husband was away at sea. Does anyone know anything about her parents or siblings, or where she lived in Wicklow please? Add
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Dea
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7 Sep 2008 08:50 |
Thank you Tracy,
This saves me a lot of work continuing to follow the 'possible' I have been following, which is now obviously not the one according to the info you have posted!
As you say, it does help when the info is all together on one thread.
Dea x
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Clitheroelass
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7 Sep 2008 08:56 |
hi dea I made that mistake have been looking for the husband for past hour gave up then found the second thread.
Tracy
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Dea
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7 Sep 2008 09:44 |
Still can't find any sign of Elizabeth in Walton on the Hill though (or anywhere nearby) ??
Very strange - I think I will stop and wait for more info!
Dea x
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Marian
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7 Sep 2008 11:15 |
Thank you. In censuses James NHF's wife was recorded as 'Stewart' (wrong spelling). James and Elizabeth's children were Elizabeth, James and Robert. There is a James Stuart born in 1835 in the 1871 census recorded on 'Vessels' in Aberdeen that may be him, but no place of birth or father's name is recorded. He hasn't used his middle names on his marriage certificate (probably because he was disowned for marrying Elizabeth Jane) so it makes it difficult as there are so many James Stuarts. Any information at all would be really appreciated. Regards, Marian.
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Dea
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7 Sep 2008 11:23 |
Yes Marian,
I have found that one (vessels) and I have tried stewart already in all census's, but can find no trace of Elizabeth in or around Walton on the Hill.
Also, the only one I can find with parents Henry + Elizabeth which half fits, has her parents born in Lancashire not Ireland.
Can you give us some references please of the census you have these details from?
Dea x
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Marian
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7 Sep 2008 11:39 |
Hello Dea,
The 1891 census has Elizth Jane 'Stewart', aged 36 (wrong spelling) with her 3 children, James Albert (8, my Grandfather), Margt (correct, my previous message was incorrect - she was actually known as Marie, her middle name, aged 11) and Robert Albert, 6. 1901 census - Elizabeth 'Stewart', 40 - wrong spelling again. It's taken me ages to track them down because of all the wrong spellings and abreviations.
Thank you, Dea. Regards, Marian.
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Marian
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7 Sep 2008 11:54 |
Hello Tracy,
In the 1901 census, Michael Lannon lived at the same address as Elizabeth Jane and her children. He was her brother-in-law, a widower. I have no information about her siblings. I only know her father was Henry, a cab owner, from her marriage certificate. I can't find any information about her mother either.
Thank you, Marian.
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JaneyCanuck
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7 Sep 2008 23:13 |
Even better, a whole previous thread about this individual.
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1065270
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JaneyCanuck
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7 Sep 2008 23:27 |
Do you know anything about Michael Lannon?
First, is that the correct name? It's difficult to decipher on the census image, and it could be a number of things.
The only way he could be her actual brother-in-law would be if he were married to her sister. But he shows as single.
Could brother-in-law be a euphemism?
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JaneyCanuck
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7 Sep 2008 23:32 |
This is the closest match for Michael Lannon in 1891:
Name: Michael Lannon Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relation: Roomer Gender: Male Where born: Sligo, Ireland Civil Parish: Royton Ecclesiastical parish: Royton County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Occupation: Navvy Registration district: Oldham Sub registration district: Royton ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Anne Flanagan 48 Hugh Flanagan 18 John Flanagan 7 Mary A Flanagan 9 Michael Flanagan 15 Patrick Flanagan 56 Patrick Flanagan 12 Michael Lannon 40 Patrick Lydon 26
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JaneyCanuck
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7 Sep 2008 23:38 |
Just for future ref, the info that everybody needed in the first place (apart from the fact that the origins are in Ireland, the actual important bit):
1891:
Name: Elizth Jane Stewart Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relation: Boarder Gender: Female Where born: Wicklow, Ireland Civil Parish: Kirkdale Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Occupation: Dressmaker own account at home Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district: Kirkdale ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Joseph Donnelly 30 Margt Jane Donnelly 4 Mary Jane Donnelly 32 Robert Joseph Donnelly 8/12 William Donnelly 8 Elizth Jane Stewart 36 James Albert Stewart 8 Margt Stewart 11 Robert Albert Stewart 6
Daughter Margaret born c1880 was born in Wicklow, so one would presume they were in Wicklow in 1881.
1901:
Name: Elizabeth Stewart Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Ireland Civil Parish: Bootle Cum Linacre Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district: Bootle ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household schedule number: 288
Michael Lannon 45 Elizabeth Stewart 40 James Stewart 19 Margaret Stewart 21 Robert Stewart 13
I haven't yet figured out where Walton on the Hill comes into this ...
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JaneyCanuck
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7 Sep 2008 23:43 |
In 1901 Elizabeth Jane reports married.
James died in 1917.
Is this the Walton on the Hill connection??
1901
Name: James Stewart Age: 61 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Janet Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil Parish: Walton On The Hill Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country:
Occupation: Dock Labourer Condition as to marriage: Married Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district: Walton ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Household schedule number: 117
James Stewart 61 Janet Stewart 33 - born Scotland Janet Stewart 5 - born Bootle Mary Stewart 1 - born Liverpool
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JaneyCanuck
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8 Sep 2008 16:48 |
Michael Lannon shows as aged 45 in 1901.
The Michael Lannon I was looking at in 1891 shows as aged 40. Rounding is always a possibility. That one was born in Sligo.
A possible in the IGI:
MICHAEL LANNON Birth: 04 JUL 1864 0098, Gurteen District, Sligo, Ireland Father: MICHAEL LANNON Mother: MARY STENSON Batch No.: C701235
Looking for a "brother-in-law" connection, but I'm tending to the euphemism theory. That James maybe wasn't so much away at sea as just away.
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JaneyCanuck
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8 Sep 2008 16:52 |
There's only one Henry Cowell marriage in the IGI.
HENRY COWELL Spouse: JANE KERNEY Marriage: 17 DEC 1849 , , Ireland Batch No.: M701999
No other Cowell in that batch (one Kearney) -- and not a single place name given for any marriage in the entire batch.
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Marian
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12 Sep 2008 00:02 |
Hello JaneyCanuck - Thank you for your help.
Michael Lannon shows more clearly on the 1901 England census as a labourer at the Liverpool docks. I do know that Elizabeth Jane's sister died and her husband boarded with Elizabeth and James, but I don't know her sister's name, or whether she died in Ireland or England. As for James NHF, he was disowned for marrying Elizabeth Jane, a sewing maid at the time, which is why there is no family knowledge of his parents, although I remember Scotland and Southern England being talked about when I was a child, so I guess James's parents came from Scotland and moved to Southern England. No doubt James settled in Liverpool because of the links with shipping, or because of Elizabeth Jane. However, their first child was born in Ireland - Elizabeth may have returned home for the birth, especially as James was away at sea. I could look for Parish records, if only I knew where James was born. I am sure his baptism records would include all his middle names, but looking for a James Stuart whose father was also James Stuart, is very difficult. Thanks again, Marian.
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