Find Ancestors

Hello I am trying to find the parents of my Great great grandfather Charles Thomas. He was born in 1853 I do not know where. This is what I know of him though he married Elizabeth "Bessie" Griffiths on 31st May 1880 in Pontypridd, The witnesses to Charles and Elizabeth's marriage were James Price Jones and Richard Lewis Francis. On the marriage certificate he states that he is a Ginger Beer Seller and is living at 8 River Street, Pontypridd, he also states that his father is William Thomas (father is stated as deceased) and that William was a surgeon. I have searched the census's endless times and can never find a Charles Thomas with a father William who is a surgeon and I do not know therefore who Charles's mother is which I would like to know. I have searched and searched for Charles's parents but cannot seem to find them can anyone help?

a possible

1881 census - household transcription
Person: THOMAS, Charles
Address: 28, Berw Road, Llanwonno

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

THOMAS, Charles Head Married M 30 1851 Ginger Beer Driver (Carter) Newport Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Bessie Wife Married F 23 1858 Housekeeper Llandaff Glamorganshire Wales

Tempest how did you find that that is them I can't believe you found them I haven't been able to find them living together. Thank you. Where is that census record?

Richard lewis francis 1853 son of Jane ,he married Jennett James in Pontypridd 1877.He was a butcher.

Is this James Price Jones married Pontypridd to either kate Probert or Maria smith 1895.

Maryb

you're welcome Martin, I found them on findmypast by searching the 1881 census for all Charles Thomas and entering ginger* in the occupation box

here's the reference

RG number: RG11
Piece: 5296
Folio: 149
Page: 17
Registration District: Pontypridd
Sub District: Pontypridd
Civil Parish: Llanwonno Municipal Borough:
Address: 28, Berw Road, Llanwonno
County: Glamorganshire

Thankyou for those marriages Mary I will have to see whether the people mentioned are related to Charles and maybe I might find a sister or brother of Charles father William for example which might make it easier to find William.

Is there anyway you can find the addresses of surgeons somewhere for example are they recorded on a seperate register?

Where elso have you got Charles and what were the names of his children.

Maryb

Sorry if I'm putting a spanner in the works, but would the legitimate son of a surgeon (a highly respected profession) become a ginger beer seller (carter)?

I'm not saying it's impossible, of course there are situations when a child is disowned or renounces their family. Or perhaps the father wasn't married to Charles mother.

Maryb he had only one child with elizabeth my great grandmother Gladys Jane Thomas who was born in 1882 at 13 river street, pontypridd. I have both Gladys birth and marriage certificate and they both state Charles Thomas as her father. MarieCeleste I understand what you are saying but Charles Thomas stated on his marriage certificate that William Thomas was his father and they have the same surname so I believe that William the surgeon is Charles father just because you have a father that is a surgeon doesn't automatically mean you will get a good job Charles may not have been as intellectual for example as his father. But back to the point I can't find Charles in any earlier census's then 1881 so it may be possible he went by a different surname or like MarieCeleste said he may have had a different father or may have been living with his mother who had a different surname. Were do I go from here?

Hello Martin, I know this isn't finding the parents, but this must have been Charles' employer in 1881 going by the address and occupation:

TURBERVILLE, Fredk Head Married M 46 1835 Ginger Beer Manufacturer Newport Monmouthshire
TURBERVILLE, Jane Wife Married F 51 1830 Caerleon Monmouthshire

Registration District: Pontypridd Sub District: Pontypridd
Civil Parish: Llanwonno

Address: 8, River St, Llanwonno County: Glamorganshire

Martin, I must say (and other people who help on here would confirm it) that a father's name and occupation on a marriage certificate is by no means always the truth or factual. They can be entirely fictitious - as can ages, addresses, marital status and so on .......

The information is only what the informant chose to say on the day, and it was often to "save face". I have found this out with several of my own ancestors.

However, that will not stop us trying to find info one way or another!

Thanks MarieCeleste I just want to find out who his parents were as I can't find any trace of him.

Hi any help!!

Martin you know more than you are saying and that is hardly helpful

this is Gladys in 1891

Name: Gladys J Thomas
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter-in-Law
Gender: Female
Where born: Treforcot, Carmarthenshire, Wales
[Treforest, Carmarthenshire, Wales] >> you are the person who corrected this ?

Civil Parish: Llangeinor
Ecclesiastical parish: Llangeinor
Town: Ogmore Vale
County/Island: Glamorgan

Denpimer Rowland 52 - he is Benjamin and he is a sinker? in a coalmine
Elizabeth Rowland 32 - born Llandaff
Gladys J Thomas 9


so when you say

I haven't been able to find them living together.

well you know they were not living together after the 1881 census I reckon.


i would strongly doubt the story that his father was a surgeon too, you say you believe 'William the surgeon' was his father, the problem is there is no such William the surgeon ............. and of course if someone was going to invent a father they would invent one with their own surname, lol ! and people invented fathers all the time .................

what was his wife's father's occupation on the marriage certificate please?

This is the only one I can find with father, William in 1861 census?

THOMAS, William Head Married M 30 1831 Gardener
Llanfrechfa Upper
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Hannah Wife Married F 29 1832
Caerleon
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Charles Son M 8 1853 Scholar
Caerleon
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Herbert Son M 3 1858 Scholar
Llanfrechfa
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Emma R Daughter F 2 1859
Llanfrechfa
Monmouthshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG09 Piece:
4011 Folio:
19 Page:
51

Registration District:
Pontypool Sub District:
2 Llangibby Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Llanvrechva Upper Municipal Borough:
Address:
Ladywell Row, Llanvrechva Upper County:
Monmouthshire

Found this in 1881 census???
Age and place are not right but then people did lie about their age etc.

THOMAS, William L Head Married M 64 1817 Surgeon
Horsham
Sussex
THOMAS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 61 1820
Pulborough
Sussex
THOMAS, Charles M Son Married M 34 1847 Surgeons Son No Occupation
Horsham
Sussex
FRANKES, Elizabeth Servant Single F 21 1860 Housemaid
Rusper
Sussex
HILLMAN, Annie Servant Single F 16 1865 Genl Serv
Slinfold
Sussex

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1107 Folio:
95 Page:
7

Registration District:
Horsham Sub District:
North Horsham Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Horsham Municipal Borough:
Address:
16, Richmond Ter Carfax, Horsham County:
Sussex

lol, only problem is that tempest found our Charles in 1881 already wit his wife ........

THOMAS, Charles Head Married M 30 1851 Ginger Beer Driver (Carter) Newport Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Bessie Wife Married F 23 1858 Housekeeper Llandaff Glamorganshire Wales


it is an interesting coincidence though

Thank you for the help and chrissiex no need to get nasty I am human after all and I do forget things yes I did know that Charles and Bessie did split as I couldn't find them together after 1881 but that is not what I needed help with, I wanted to know who Charles's Parents were and him splitting with his wife or dying was not in question! I don't think knowing what Charles did in later life would help you find his parents READ MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE. Charles wife Bessie fathers occupation was a Haulier on marriage certificate. I just want help to find Charles parents I know all about his later life.

you are most welcome Martin

chrissie x