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Nicola

Thanks for this. I was hoping the address might give some clues,but as it was her mothers address, then it doesn't really, I'm afraid.

Hi Ann - sorry for the delay. Here are the details you asked for.

My grandmother, Florence Louisa Hatton, was born in 1889, the address on the birth certificate is 6 Bengel Street, West Derby,Liverpool - the same as her address on the 1881 census- this is Louisa Hatton's (Florence Louisa's mother) parents home. Mother's occupation on the certificate is Domestic servant. In March 1891 Louisa married Albert Edward Rawsthorne. In the 1891 census their surnames are now Rawsthorne, although Albert and Louisa are living separately, the latter with her parents at 29 Rutlow (I think) Street, West Derby, Liverpool.

Is this any help?

Where was she born (actual address), and what was her mothers name? Thanks for your kind words!

Hi Ann and Ivy,
You certaintly haven't put a dampener on it Ann. Just to let you know how much I appreciate the help you've both given me. I know this doctor may not be the one I'm looking for, but the problem is I will never know for sure anyway, so its just finding the best fit, and for the moment this is probably it! As with you Ivy, I'm really interested in where Harry's parents are - so I'll keep investigating.
Once again many, many thanks.
Kind regards
Nicola.

Hi Ann

No dampener to me anyway - just pushing each theory as far as breaking point - a good mathematical proof is the one that says "so that hypothesis is impossible".

I am very interested in the fact that Henry/Harry's parents don't appear easily - so far as I am aware, it took a fair income to put a child through medical school in those days.

I think you've made a lot of assumptions here. I thought the culprit was a son of a doctor - we don't know who Harrys parents were, unless I'm missing something....

Unless a family member knows something about it, or there is a mention in a will, don't know how you'd know.
Sorry to put a dampener on it!

... could be. Isn't there something about gentry referring to families as (say) the Pennington Davies (i.e. the ones from Pennington as opposed to the ones from Wigan?) So that might be a way of double-barrelling?

Another thing I've just thought of...after my gt grandmother had her daughter she married another man very quickly, within two years. His mother's maiden name was Pennington Davies - a way of holding on to a famous family name (we always thought). Do you think this could be another link with the area?

It does look as if he has some connection there, doesn't it?

Not because it is useful, but because I have found it, these are the people living in Pennington House in 1891:

Name: Tabitha Hodson
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Hindley Green, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Pennington
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Leigh
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: Westleigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 13

Household Members:
Name Age
Tabitha Hodson 17
John Yates 52
Mary Yates 75
Mary J Yates 23

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3088; Folio 128; Page 45; GSU roll: 6098198.

Hi Ivy,
Interesting, as well, that they all have the name Leigh, which is also the name of the district, and it looks as though Harry passed the the Gordon Leigh on to his son Samuel.

This is Robert's daughter's birth reg in Leigh:

Births Jun 1864
PASSE Elizabeth Ada Leigh 8c 202

and the Free BMD description of the RD concludes

"Registers now divided between Wigan & Leigh and Warrington districts".

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/
districts/leigh.html

so yes, hooray, looks like you're on a winner...

Interesting to speculate why Henry went to visit in 1881. I wonder if he had been at the school as a teenager? The Passe family themselves seem to be from further north (round the Preston area).

If my info.is correct, and Pennington (Leigh) is in Wigan, we've just moved a step nearer to Liverpool.

Hi Ivy and Ann,
I think I've found our elusive Harry on the 1881 census - his name is Henry and he does not use his middle names.
Name :GILCHRIST, Henry
R'ship to head :Visitor
Single M 22
Occupation: Medical Student
Born:Manchester Lancashire

Address: Pennington House, Pennington

Thanks for the explanation, Ivy!

Hi Ann,

Samuel Gordon Gilchrist was born around 1888 in Manchester. He is with his parents Harry G(ordon) L(eigh) Gilchrist (the doctor you found who qualified in 1885) and Thirza (nee Leigh) in Carlisle/Stanwix in 1891 and 1901.

Yes, Harry too seems to have died in 1918.

For someone who had so many initials, HGL Gilchrist seems fairly unfindable before 1885!

Who is Samuel?? Did Harry die in 1918 as well as Robert Munn? I'm confused by both of the last 2 posts!

Hi Ivy and Ann
I also found Harry Gilchrist on the 1891 Census and Samuel's birth details - it certaintly puts a different slant on things. We always thought the father was of a similar age, but this man was married with a young baby. Maybe this is why we never got clear details.

Hi Nicola and Ann

I've had another look at Harry Gilchrist following your findings. Although he was in Cumberland from 1891 until his death in 1918, he was born in Manchester and his first child Samuel was also born in Manchester, in 1888 [Edited - Prestwich reg dist]. It seems as if Manchester would be the right area whether the doctor is Robert or Harry.

Sorry Ann - only just picked up your message. You're right, Robert and Thomas do look like possible candidates, I'll certainly look in to it. But Harry could also be guilty as Louisa was only 17 when it happened, however he seems to have been in Carlisle on the 1913 register. Oh well, I didn't think it would be easy!
Thanks again for your help.
Kind regards
Nicola

Nicola

Had a look at the earliest Medical Directory they had at Kew, which was for 1895. There were 3 Gilchrists who were Doctors in England. Harry Gordon Leigh Gilchrist - no address, qualified 1885, Thomas Blackadder (!!) Gilchrist, living in Conisborough Yorks, and Robert Munn Gilchrist, who I see someone on here found on a census. His address is 1895 was Gordon House, Derby St, Bolton-Le-Moors. He seems the most likely as Harry seems too young, and Thomas wasn't in the right area. I then looked up Robert Munn Gilchrists will in the Probate Index. He died 15 Sept 1918. Probate was granted Manchester 1 Mar to Selina Gilchrist, widow, and Thomas Gilchrist, printer and publisher.

Perhaps Thomas Gilchrist was the culprit??? Might be worth getting his will - obviously we need to find out when he died, first!- to see who he left his money to. Wonder also whether Robert's will would mention anything?