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I wonder if there is a death just to be sure of him in the Tamworth area between say 1875 and his wife remarried in 1879 so say 1878

So looks like we are looking at a mistranscription of Bernard as in Barnett Judge

Wow Ozi, this is Brilliant.....fancy the Judge's leading to the Allen's...i thought these were just going to have to go on the back burner for a while until we tied up the Hall's and Judge's but....there you go....your a star!!
thankyou very much!

There is this bloke in 1861 who's a possibility.

1861 England Census
Name: Barnett Judge
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Walsall Borough
Town: Walsall
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Walsall
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Barnett Judge 22
Bridgett Judge 16
Dennis Judge 18
Hannah Judge 36
John Judge 36

It all leads back to Allens, doesn't it?

Many Judges on the 1871 census have a connection to Ireland. There's 13 living in Walsall in 1871; 7 born Ireland, the rest born Walsall. No Bernard.

Ozi.

Thanks Ozi, i've just had to disappear again, i'll have to go through these Allens and like you say study the DOB.....thankyou very much for all this
yes this is the right marriage....but i think Elizabeth Judge who had Walter in 1874 might have been married to A judge and assuming she was a Hall?? she died in 1882 when she was married to John French

I don't think it's the Allens she's related to. So let's try the Judges.


Marriages Mar 1879
French John Tamworth 6b 447
JUDGE Eliza Tamworth 6b 447


Births Dec 1874
Judge Walter James Tamworth 6b 424


Marriages Jun 1872
...>>>Allen Eliza Walsall 6b 923
...>>>JUDGE Bernard Walsall 6b 923
MIDDLEBROOK John Walsall 6b 923
TIMMINS Ellen Walsall 6b 923

1851 England Census
Name: William Allen
Age: 5 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Gender: Male
Where born: Tamworth, Warwickshire, England


Civil Parish: Tamworth
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Registration district: Tamworth
Sub-registration district: Tamworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 16d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 100
Household Members: Name Age
John Jackson 82 - head
William Allen 23 - visitor
Ann Allen 24
Louisa Allen 4
Alfred Allen 2
William Allen 5 Mo

1861 England Census
Name: Elizth Allen
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Tamworth, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Tamworth
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Tamworth
Sub-registration district: Tamworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 74
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Allen 12
Ann Allen 34
Eliza Allen 3
Elizth Allen 5
John Allen 8
Louisa Allen 13
William Allen 34
Willm Allen 10


The dob is starting to become a problem.

Thanks Nicki and Ozi, i've just been upstairs to sort my son out...but i'm back now...
I've just come across a Charles French Born 1869 Milcomb Oxfordshire married to a Clara marson and they have a bertha french born 1890 Tamworth...this must be a connection to John French as he was born in Milcomb also and his daughter bertha french was born in Tamworth in 1880?
Charles French also had
Edith 1893
Mimmie 1895
Frances 1896
William 1898-1917
Emma 1900
Albert 1901
Harry 1904
Charles 1907
Walter 1911 1988

Or Charles and John could be cousin's?

Angela, I'm not sure Harriet & Elizabeth are sisters. I've just been away to have breakfast, but I'm on the case again for about half an hour.

Ozi.

In 1891 there is a William Allen Jane c1851. Well he's actually Wm Allen Jnr, & I think this is the family.

1871 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Allen
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Tamworth, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Tamworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Tamworth St Editha
Town: Tamworth
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Tamworth
Sub-registration district: Tamworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 45
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Allen 22
Ann Allen 44
Ann Allen 6
Asenath Allen 2
Eliza Allen 14
Elizabeth Allen 16
George Allen 3
John Allen 19
Samuel Allen 8
Sarah Allen 10
William Allen 44
...>>>William Allen 20

You will need to try to get help to find the Judges on the census.

Nicki

Fantastic Ozi, this is great!

Hi Nicki, thanks i think 1844 too, i was thinking John French could have had a sister called Elizabeth who married Thomas Hall and that's who Bertha went to live with but looks like not now....so wondering if Elizabeth Judge's maiden name was Hall and she had a brother called Thomas who Brought Bertha up

1861 England Census
Name: Eliza Allen
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Granddaughter
Father's Name: Thos
Gender: Female
Where born: Lichfield, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Tamworth
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Tamworth
Sub-registration district: Tamworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 157
Household Members: Name Age
Catherine Allen 17
Eliza Allen 13
Elizth Allen 69
...>>>Harriet Allen 10 Mo
James Allen 15
Rose Allen 16
Thomas Allen 11
Thos Allen 44
George Hatton 23
William Shaw 24

Hi Ozi, no i've only just come across Ann tonight from Claire above message and was just assuming she was.....looks like i was wrong

Prob the Dec 1844 would be the one to go for?

Nicki

Hi Nicki, i can't stop now....thankyou for the two births.....hard one as i worked it out to be 1845!! could be either

Maybe Thomas Hall is Elizabeth Judge's Brother?....perhaps there is a Judge marriage around 1873/4 of Elizabeth as originally i thought her son Walter James Judge 1874 was illigitemate

Are you sure Ann was married?

Ozi.