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This looks like Catherine's death on Free BMD Index:

Deaths Mar 1914
Brinton Catherine 49 Lanchester 10a 382

do you think still think John Brinton and John Hibbert are the same person?

Jeanette,

It is very possible.

There must have been some reason John Thomas & Martha only married in 1913 (they had been together since 1901; their first child was born June 1902).

Although he did say he was a bachelor when he married, I've always suspected he may not have been.

And there doesn't seem to be a death record for J T Brinton.

I found Christina's marriage (1900):
Christina Todd Brinton to
Richard Wilkinson Turnbull or Joseph Reay

I also found a possible marriage for John Brinton Jnr in 1915 to Eva Simpson. There is also a John Brinton (c.1888) living / born Durham on the 1901.

Its a mystery that will keep me busy for a while!

Thanks for all your help.

Annette

Hi Annette

It's certainly a mystery that has me hooked!

I think you can rule out the marriage between John Hibbert & Ellen Dean. I've found themtogether on 1901 census - John b c1870 and tracked him back to 1871

Jeanette

1901 England Census
about John T Brenton
Name: John T Brenton
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: bricklayer's labourer

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 49
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 238
Household Members: Name Age
John T Brenton 14
Eva Pratt 3
Edward Todd 55
George Todd 18
Isabella Todd 16
Jonathan Todd 14
Margt Todd 42
Margt J Todd 9


John T Jnr living with Catherine's family
Image does say Brinton

1901 England Census
about Christiana Reay
Name: Christiana Reay
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Joseph
Gender: Female

Civil Parish: Harton
Ecclesiastical parish: Harton All Saints
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 88
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 63
Household Members: Name Age

Christiana Reay 20
Joseph Reay 21

can't find Christina with Richard Turnbull

Image has Brinton

1901 England Census
about John Brunton
Name: John Brunton
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Durham, England

Civil Parish: Bishop Auckland
Ecclesiastical parish: Auckland St Andrew
Town: Bishop Auckland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Auckland
Sub registration district: Bishop Auckland
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 209
Household Members: Name Age
John Brunton 41
James W Goldsborough 11
Margaret E Goldsborough 31
Mary L Goldsborough 6
Richard Goldsborough 35
Richard Goldsborough 2


just a thought - perhaps John waited so long to marry Martha as he was still married to Catherine and didn't know where she was or if she was still alive.

This would also explain the change of name.

Jeanette

Hi Annette

Sorry to but in on your thread but on a previous reply you state you have a copy of the "1911 Census" is this a typo if not can you tell me where you got it from I did not realise it was released yet??

Regards Paula

[For Paula:

yes, you can obtain info from the 1991 census now, but you must know the address, and the enquiry cost is £45

See this site:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/1911census/ (scroll over to the RHS)

"Can I get any information from the census now?

In response to the Information Commissioners decision we shall respond to individual requests for some information from the 1911 census through our existing paid search service. This service is more limited, and almost certainly a lot more expensive to you, than the online service will be. Our recommendation is that you will get much more value out of the 1911 census if you are able wait until the online service is launched.
What is the service that you are providing now?

* A basic research service to enable you to request information from specific addresses in the 1911 census
* The 1911 Census does not have a surname index so we cannot conduct searches for names in the original documents - when it goes online this will be easy to do
* We cannot provide personally sensitive information from the 1911 census

How do I make a request now?

You will need to provide:

* 1. House name or number / Building name / Vessel name
* 2. County
* 3. Civil Parish

Requests cannot be processed without this information.

The FOI Act requires information requests to be processed within 20 working days. These 20 working days begin once The National Archives has received payment.

All requests must be in writing and an online form is provided for your convenience. Go to our form to apply online
Will I have to pay for this information?

* This will be a charged service in line with The National Archives paid search service - currently £45 per address search
* The fee is for the research work and we will endeavour to do all we can to find the information you want.
* Unfortunately we will not be able to offer refunds on unsuccessful searches

Are the documents in good condition?

* All of these records are stored in good environmental conditions in the Kew repositories, in accordance with British archival standards
* The records have been subjected to rigorous inspections by skilled Conservation staff and although creases or folds were estimated to occur in nearly 50% of records, this will not materially affect the legibility or scanning
* A much smaller percentage, about 5% of the Census schedules, has required more extensive Conservation work in order for them to be scanned safely
* This may affect the legibility of some information and there may be rare occasions when we cannot provide the information you have requested
* The enumerator summary books are all in excellent condition" ]

Jeanette,

Sorry its taken me so long to reply ... its been a long day!

Thanks for the new info and all your help before.

I was thinking the same; that John Thomas waited to get married because he was already married.

He's certainly left a tangled web to unravel, it'll keep me busy for a while.

__________________________________________

Paula,

Ivy has given you the main details; you will find any further info on the National Archives website.

The service worked for me but I was fairly sure that I had the right address; I had a birth cert dated 1909 and a marriage cert dated 1913.

£45 is alot of money but I had spent nearly 4 years trying to find out where my Great Granddad was born and didn't want to wait until 2012 to find out!

Annette

Jeanette,

Can you remember what was J T's marital status on the 1901?

Thanks,
Annette

Hi Annette

marital status - married
place of birth - Durham
occupation ???monger - I think.it's not very clear


Jeanette

Hi Annette

If these are the right people J T may not have waited long enough to get married - Catherine's death is registered 1914!!

Jeanette

Wow, Jeannette and Annette, these people's lives are complicated! It's taken me a while to digest everything on here.

Just on that last point, I have had a look at the Brunton entry for Bishop's Auckland (b abt 1860). I'd read it as felmonger, often spelt fellmonger.

Yes, I've just googled "Old Occupations" and found a website that explained;

Felmonger - Someone who removes hair or wool from hides in preparation for leather making

I found the death of Catherine Brinton aswell, John and Martha married in November 1913; so if this is my John Thomas he was a bygamist aswell.

Annette