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help ! which samuel married a sarah,thanks maxine

I hope this all makes sense to you now. Don't hesitate to ask if it doesn't.

You'll be able to trace some of these back on the censuses now, and maybe go back another one or two generations. Also, a couple of them show up on the IGI on familysearch.org

How lovely to have met up with your aunt and cousin again! Now you'll be kept even busier, sorting this lot out to make sense for her.

Just to clarify the marriage certificate I saw yesterday - I'm sure it's them as they were living in Mary Ann Terrace, and on the 1861 census they were living in Mary Ann Street.

Samuel Martin (senior) who was born c.1835 in Whitechapel: The only Samuel Martin I could find to fit him was living with his mother, Elizabeth, and siblings William, Ellen and Louisa in Whitechapel. I found christenings for a Samuel Martin b.1835, Ellen Martin b.1829 and William Martin b.1826 at St.Marys, Whitechapel. All of them had the parents Samuel and Elizabeth Martin. Their father was down as a Stay Maker.

The only Samuel Martin (Stay Maker) I could find on the 1851 census was living in Portsea with a 21 year old wife, and 1 year old son, Edwin. By 1861 they have moved to Bermondsey:

1861 census

Samuel Martin - head - 50 - stay maker - Whitechapel
Sarah Martin - wife - 31 - Stepney
Edwin Martin - son -11 - Rotherhithe
Henry Martin - son -6 - Southwark
George Martin - son - 4 - Bermondsey
Charles Martin - son - 5 mons. - Southwark

Samuel knocks 5 years off his age with every census. Probably to close the gap between himself and his wife.

christina,i think youve found all there is to find.....then you find some more,this is really great stuff,im meeting up with my aunt stella in a few weeks,she will be amazed at all this stuff youve found,she will hopefully be able to fill in a few gaps and shes bringing some photos which will be the icing on the cake!! i only recently found my aunt on this site and i saw her for the first time in 22 years and met my cousin again who was a baby last time we met,she will love all this info,our whole family is estranged so thankyou very very much christina.maxine

In a rush as usual, but just wanted to tell you that I saw this marriage certificate today. This must confirm that your Gt.grandmother, Matilda's, grandmother must have been Elizabeth Higgins.

23.12.1855 St. Matthews, Bethnal Green

Marriage took place between Samuel Martin - batchelor - tobacco shipper - living at 9, Mary Ann Terrace - father: Samuel Martin a stay maker

and Elizabeth Higgins - spinster - 9, Mary Ann Terrace - father: William Higgins a carpenter

Both of full age

can you explain info about samuel senior senior and sarah martin,thankyou ,then i can put an end to it and put it all in my tree,after all ,you are the brains in this!!!!! you can add it to my bill!!! maxine

louisa was the possible sister,you guys ,this is great stuff,you have managed to do alot of digging,thankyou very much indeed,sorry i havent been online this morning,it was my youngests sons first day at nursery school and all the parents had to stay.A big thankyou for your time and brilliant efforts to christina and lost for words!!! maxine

So Maxine, to answer your original questions - Matilda's parents were Samuel Alfred Martin (or Alfred Samuel Martin) and Matilda Lehan. His only siblings that we've found so far are William Henry b.1857 and Louisa b.1865.

Matilda Lehan's parents are William Lehan and Priscilla Phillips (who was born in Hampshire).

Samuel (Alfred) Martin's parents are Samuel Martin and Elizabeth Higgins.

Was Louisa the possible sister that you were asking about, or do you think there's another one?

Maxine - without the certificates this is guess work, but this seems very likely.

1855 - Samuel Martin married Elizabeth Higgins in Bethnal Green.

On 1851 census - Elizabeth Higgins (born 1835 St.George in the East) was living with her parents and siblings in Whitechapel. She was working as a Parasol Maker. This is the job Samuel's wife had in 1871 - so a very plausible match. Everything matches. Also, her father's name was William, which is the name they gave to the eldest son.

Lost for Words - I thought I was persistant, but that's very impresive. You can't find them on the 1881 can you?

Haven't found Samuel Martin senior senior on the 1841 yet, but he must have been around as his son, Samuel, was christened in 1845 (10 years old at the time). The baptism records for his children William and Ellen, show that he was a Stay Maker.

What do you think of this! 1851 census - Portsea

Samuel Martin - head - 45 - stay maker - Whitechapel
Sarah Martin - wife - 21 - Stepney
Edwin Martin - son - 1 - Rotherhithe

He's probably knocked a few years off his age to impress his young wife.

Brilliant! I looked for that for ages.

As I can't find them on the 1861 and 1881 censuses, would you like me to open a new thread, asking for help with this one?

I'm sure this is Samuel senior on the 1841 census, as a 7 year old, living with his mother.

Whitechapel - Cooper's Court

Eliz. Martin - 39 - ? polisher
William Martin - 15
Ellen Martin - 12
Louisa Martin - 10
Samuel Martin - 7

All the above children are on familysearch.org - IGI - being christened in Whitechapel, with the parents Samuel and Elizabeth Martin.

Hi Maxine, So glad we have the same one! So the 1891 census, typed out above, must be the right one. Samuel with his father, Samuel, and possible mother, Elizabeth. Impossible to be sure without ordering Samuel's birth certificate.

I can't work out if he was Samuel Alfred Martin (who I can't see a registration for) or Alfred Samuel Martin (who was registered at Whitechapel in Oct-Dec 1869.) I'm sure his parents called him Alfred, but he chose to use the Samuel part of his name as he got older.

It must be the correct family that I've typed out for 1871 census. So your Samuel (called Alfred by his parents) had a sister, Louisa (registered 1865 at St.George in the East) and a brother William Henry (registered in 1857 at St.George in the East).

Quite a gap between the children though. I wonder if there were others.

Unfortunately, I can't find any of them on the 1881 census. Nor can I see Samuel senior on the 1861.

yes,this is them!!! i do appreciate this,i know how precous time is and time flies when your on here!!! thanks maxine

Sure you have this already, but just to make sure we are talking about the same family.

1901 - Bermondsey

Samuel Alfred Martin - Head - 31 - Carman - Whitechapel
Matilda Martin - wife - 29 - Laundress - Bermondsey
Alfred Thomas Martin - son - 7 - Bermondsey
Matilda Eliz. Martin - dau - 6 - Bermondsey
Harriet Emily Martin - dau - 4 - Bermondsey
Helen Martin - dau - 2 - Bermondsey
George Charles Martin - son - 7 mons. - Bermondsey


Samuel Alfred Martin and Matilda Lehan (the parents above) were married in 1892 in Southwark

Hi Maxine, Unfortunately, can't spend much time on computer today. Would love to check this with you though. Do you know if your Gt.grandmother, Matilda Martin, married Richard Hartnett and had children Matilda, Annie and Margaret? Fingers crossed that she did, as I believe that this is the Matilda we have on the censuses above.

hi christina,sorry i had logged off yesterday,hope your about today,my greatgrandmother was the one with martin as the last name,matilda,thanks i will try and stay on the line this time,it was just my little boys bedtime and he wanted to go to bed then,thanks again,maxine

I'm guessing that you had a Gt. grandmother or Gt.grandfather with the surname Martin. Were they Alfred, Matilda, Harriet, Helen or George?