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Hi Mark

I have always know my fathers name as thats one thing my mother stoped telling me as my brothers middle name is my fathers first name.

I have both my birth and my parent marriage certificate, my mother also always told me that he was from southend on sea as that is also where his first wife and first two children are.

so the info i have is correct.

as my mother married my father in the year of 1984, mi have also been able to obtain my mother parents marriage and that was 1956.

I am new at cutting and things but i found the thread where i got the info from, on the tips board type in dowsett and its the first one, sorry to be so bad at thins.

kind regards
samantha

Hi Sam,

thanks for explaining that.

So, in summary, you already hold originals or copies of
1) Your own birth cert
2) Your parent's marriage cert
3) Your mum's birth cert
4) Your dad's birth cert
5) Queenie's death cert
6) Queenies marriage cert

You haven't mentioned getting death certs for Alice or George and, whilst many would recommend getting these as a matter of routine (at each generation), I'm still assessing whether it would add any value here. There doesn't seem to have been any ambiguity about the names, place and date of the wedding and you've got the cert already so, on balance, I think you can skip the death certs.

I'll check out the old thread, do some more hunting and see what I can find with the aid of the extra clues.


M

Hi Mark

Yep I have all apart from death as i cant find their births, and my mum's cert, as of yet i havent started her side of the family as its germany i have to go, im having enough trouble with this side LOL

regards
samantha

Hi Samantha,

Two possibles in census 1891 (both of which imply mild exaggeration of her age at marriage - claiming "22" craftily makes a pretence of having had a 'decent' length of engagement).


Option #1
Alice, age 12, daur of George and Sarah A

1891 England Census
about Alice Hill
Name: Alice Hill
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Sarah A
Gender: Female
Where born: Stratford, Essex, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image
Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Hill 12
George Hill 65
Henrietta Hill 10
James Hill 7
Jessie Hill 3
Richard H Hill 9
Sarah A Hill 43

-------------------------

Option #2
Alice, 11, daur of George and (deceased spouse) with George's mother resident. (I think I've posted this one before).

1891 England Census
about Alice Hill
Name: Alice Hill
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: St Luke, London, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image
Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Hill 11
George Hill 40
George R Hill 5
Helen A Hill 10
James C Hill 8
Martha Hill 6
Susama Hill 60


There are more like this but not for Kent or Essex.


Now, that scrawly handwriting on Queenie's birth cert?

Read this...

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/handwriting.html

and see if ??Offord?? becomes more like Stratford.

For even more examples of old-style writing, open a new wordpad document, select "Script" font and type away. Get familiar with all the capital letter shapes, compared to their lower-case equivalents. This will make certs and census images a lot easier to decipher.


I'll be back later this evening. Bye for now,


Mark

Hi Mark

ive done both the script and the handwriting, and no help at all when i say the hand writing is bad, its as bad as a doctors writing I mean the second word in alice add looks like rmac or rmao it is that bad.

george add is as hard the 1st word is a G thats clear and the second name of the add is Hill thats claer but no help at all on the rest of the first name of the add.

regards
samantha

Hi

I have spend hours trying to find alice and george, but no luck I mean I have George full name and I cant find his birth at all.

this one i may just have to hold my hands up and say im beaten

regards
samantha

Hi Samantha,

I wouldn't mind having a go at reading the thing myself but you'll need a document scanner or digital camera to produce a file to send by email, if you're happy to do that.

Let me know when you're ready to send it and I'll PM you my e-address.


regards,


Mark

Hi Mark

I do not have a scanner but I do have a camara that I could take a pic for you, gonna have to do that later for you.
I did it quicker then i thought

Kind regards
Samantha

For the benefit of anyone who was following this thread, I viewed the cert myself and reckoned George's address at the time of marriage was "Grove Hill" and Alice's was "WHam Ldn", with an excessively decorative lead-in stroke, so it looked like "2mace" at first glance. Under high magnification, it was two distinct words with collapsed loops.... W..h...squiggle...(gap)...L..blob...wave.

In the meantime, Samantha sensibly rang the GRO about the handwriting problem, and they helpfully offered the services of their document-decipherers.

I'd never realised they could do this for people but it's probably mentioned on their website, if you look in the right place.

So, if you get stuck with a scrawly certificate, there is a convenient solution.


@Samantha,

Do let us know what GRO said, when you hear from them.


regards,

Mark

Hi Mark

Once I receive confirmation from the GRO I shall let you know, as once i get that info, I am going to start on this agian to find Alice Hill.

Regards
Samantha

Hi Everyone

Last nite I received an e-mail from GRO with regards to the poor handwriting on the marriage certificate I have for Hill and Morgan.

Please see below the e-mail I reveieved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From GRO

The registrar's writing is very difficult to decipher.

The groom's condition is Bachelor

The groom's residence is impossible to decipher other then the first word
starts with the letter G and the second word is Hill.

The bride's residence appears to read Oxford Terrace

The witnesses names appear to read Mary Alice Runce and Francis Prescott.

Regards Ms Feeney
Certificate Services Contact Centre.

Regards
Samantha