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Hi LforW
Any hot favourites in that selection of brides?
Nothing leaps out at me.

I thought I had found her. I discovered an Agness Murdoch, claiming to be a widow, in the 1861 census.(She would wouldn't she?)
I got really excited when I discovered that she had a six year old son, Robert Murdoch and her husband was from Stair. But ... it turned out that the husband had been a John Murdoch; not Robert. ... Boo Hoo!!!

I will have a look around these candidates. I did check out the Hutchison one last night and it didn't work out ..brain gone, can't remember why not.

Hi Julie
Had to have my weekly fix of, "Have I Got News For You"
Now down to business!
Jane's mother was Agnes WILSON and I have been unable to find any Carr connection in either Jane or Robert's family!
They were not at Hunter's Cottages at the time of the 1861 census. A kind researcher did a check some weeks ago; I believe on Find my Past, where I believe one can check by address - I think that was what she told me?

Hello all.
Sorry i didn't do my homework properly on the infant Robert Pettigrew-musn't get carried away and forget the rules of checking.
Carole do you know anything about Jane's parents-could her mother's maiden name be Carr? Also do you have a street address for Hunters Cottages and/or parish it was in as it may be possible to find it in the 1861 census if you do?
Julie

12/11/1848 MURDOCK ROBERT EUPHEMIA JAMIESON/FR394 M Auchinleck /AYR 577/ 0020 0344


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles

ROBERT MURDOCK Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: EUPHEMIA JAMIESON
Marriage: 12 NOV 1848 Auchinleck, Ayr, Scotland

Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M115774 1820 - 1855 1041328 Film 6901989 Film
Sheet: 00

10/11/1848 MURDOCH ROBERT ISABELLA FERGUSON/FR2860 M Kilmarnock (Ayr) /AYR 597/ 0120 0050
44 05/11/1848 MURDOCH ROBERT ISABELLA FERGUSSON/FR377 M Ayr /AYR 578/ 0120 0393


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles

ROBERT MURDOCH Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: ISABELLA FERGUSSON
Marriage: 05 NOV 1848 Ayr, Ayr, Scotland

Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M119635 1820 - 1854 1041332 Film 6900404 Film
Sheet: 00

31/01/1851 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET BROWN/FR898 M Ochiltree /AYR 609/ 0040 0199
19/01/1851 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET BROWN/FR398 M Auchinleck /AYR 577/ 0020 0352


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles

ROBERT MURDOCH Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: JANET BROWN
Marriage: 19 JAN 1851 Auchinleck, Ayr, Scotland

Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M115774 1820 - 1855 1041328 Film 6901989 Film
Sheet: 00

IGI is a submitted record!?!

08/10/1847 MURDOCH ROBERT HELEN HUTCHISON/FR285 M Stair /AYR 614/ 0020 0220
08/10/1847 MURDOCH ROBERT HELEN HUTCHISON/FR720 M Tarbolton /AYR 619/ 0030 0417


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles


ROBERT MURDOCH Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: HELEN HUTCHISON
Marriage: 08 OCT 1847 Stair, Ayr, Scotland

Messages: Record submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The source films cannot be sent to family history centers and have limited access at the Family History Library. A family group record for this family may be in the Family Group Record Collection; Archive Section. (See the Family History Library Catalog for the film number.) These records are alphabetical by name of the father or husband.

Source Information:
Batch Number: A457323
Sheet: 00
Source Call No.: 457323-457327 Type: Book

A few possible marriages:

17/12/1853 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET WYLLIE/FR959 M Stewarton /AYR 616/ 0040 0420
17/12/1853 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET WYLLIE/FR633 M Dunlop /AYR 591/ 0030 0229

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles


ROBERT MURDOCH Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: JANET WYLLIE
Marriage: 17 DEC 1853 Dunlop, Ayr, Scotland

Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M115914 1820 - 1854 1041341 Film 6902207 Film
Sheet: 00

I don't know if you have this but note the different spelling of Sarahs surname

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles


MARGARET MURDOCH Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 15 FEB 1820 Stair, Ayr, Scotland
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JAMES MURDOCH
Mother: SARAH PETTICRIEVE

Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C116144 1820 - 1854 1041468 Film 6900538 Film
Sheet:

Hi Carole

I couldn't resist, when I read the names I thought 'ummm they sound familiar'. I think you've done an amazing job of tracing this family and have certainly had your work cut out!!

Bad news I'm afraid it looks like the Robert Pettigrew who died was only a few months old, I found this birth:

Births Mar 1861 (>99%)
PETTIGREW Robert Easington 10a 296

So back to the drawing board with him.

Your doing a great job of letting people know what has already been covered and I think your right to do it a bit at a time as the whole story in one go would just have their heads spinning :-) Are the other threads still on the boards, you could for those that are interested post the URL for the other threads then if they wanted to accept the challenge they could have a read although I do think you should put a hazard warning on them ;-) lol

Perhaps a timeline of them might help with all the various known names/places.

Right off to see what I can find :-)

Regards
LfW

Julie
If we accept, for the moment, that the Robert Pettigrew who died 18th March 1861 is the missing Murdoch/Montgomery? child, then the Jane and Robert Carr with two small sons, Robert and William, cannot be the family unit we are looking for. The 1861 census was not taken until the 7th April and the above Robert was dead by then.
I have however, found a childless Jane and Robert Carr, living in the registration district of Warkworth. This is quite exciting!! I will have to search out the details but I seem to remember there are links with Warkworth and the Hislops and Montgomerys!!
Robert is working at the coal pit there - looks like Banksman? Their ages are right, Jane two years older than Robert .. only problem is they state that they were born in Northumberland. But if they can swap names at will - I suppose they can do the same with places: and they were, or I think they were "in hiding"?
I am heading for the garden now!! No more procrastination!!
Carole

For the record, Easington is almost due east of Durham and about 20 miles almost due south of Jarrow .. where Robert and Jane definitely were in 1862. On 3rd Jan they were living at Hunter's Cottages Jarrow.

Thanks LfW
You beat me to it with the death!! Thanks.
(I was, in the meantime, just contemplating on how to prevent members from wasting their valuable time, researching previously covered stuff, without my having to tell the whole long, convoluted story. It's not that I mind doing that but it is a bit hard expecting people to plough through it all? ... I'll think of something.)
Back to the death ... if it is Robert Murdoch Montgomery he would have been 21 months old. I suppose that still qualifies as 'infant'? It is a long shot but I think I am going to have to order a cert.
Wingate Grange is probably near Easington? I'm about to look that up before I do anything else ... also find exactly where the Carr family were in 1861. As I said, Carr appears to have been used much later!!! but nothing surprises me; maybe they just tried the name on for size for a few months???
Carole

Susan
Thank you for those lookups. Not sure at this minute how they help but you never know. I never disregard anything. That is why I have a mountain of papers!!
I am interested that there only appears to be one Robert Murdoch, born in Stair in 1829!!! That should indicate the Stirling Robert. I wonder if that pair had any children? I wonder if that pair figure in the 1861 census? If they are both TOGETHER that probably rules them out?
I'm going to garden for a bit but I will be back tonight; probably about 9:00/9:30 UK time.
Hasta luego
Carole

Here's the death for Robert Pettigrew. I think they have assumed he was born 1861 because it only says infant so the dob could be wrong

Parish Records Collection 1538-2005 - Burial
First name(s): Robert
Last name: PETTIGREW
Date of burial: 18 Mar 1861
Age at death: Infant
Calculated year of birth: 1861
Place of burial: Wingate Grange
Dedication: Holy Trinity
County: Durham
Notes:

Wingate Grange Holy Trinity:
Denomination: Anglican
Coverage: 1841 - 1889
Number of entries: 3,227
Record source: National Burial Index
Data provider: Cleveland Family History Society
Transcriptions © Cleveland Family History Society

Hello LforW
Thanks for that. ... but I see a slightly different time scale. What say you?.....

If the Robert Murdoch, recorded in the 1851 census, as having been born in Stair in 1829, is 'our boy' .... with research so far suggesting that there was only ONE Robert Murdoch born in Stair that year .... then in 1851 he was a coach driver, in Stirling and unmarried.
So I need a marriage after the census of 1851 and before he became too involved with Jane Montgomery of Tranent. At a guess, the VERY latest he would have married is about 1857/8 (if Robert Murdoch Montgomery, born June 12th 1859, was THEIR son?). .... David Montgomery did register the birth and acknowledged he was his?
This gives quite a few marriage options? Do you know of any way of narrowing these down, before one commits to five credits a go?
Thanks for joining in
Carole

I'm sorry I missed you too!!! Sounds like you had fun?
I am interested in the 1861 Robert Pettigrew death! .. I am going to follow up on that. I might even order the certificate, if that's what it takes to find out?
We (on a previous thread), have wondered if Robert Murdoch Montgomery was Robert's child, rather than David Montgomery's and the idea was mooted that Jane took him to England and he died but despite extensive searching by GR members, we never found him. ... Jane and Robert called their son, born 1864, Robert Pettigrew. Jane and Robert were calling themselves Pettigrew on Jan 3rd 1862, (I have the twin's birth certs) and at that time they were in Jarrow. They probably became Pettigrew as soon as they left Scotland?
.... Easington? ... I must locate it. Easington Colliery rings a bell. Robert worked at Collieries. They could have gone there first?

[There is a Carr connection but not I think as early as you suggest? I will look again though. They used the surname Carr, after Pettigrew, from sometime in the 1870s. (previous threads). Sounds far fetched I know but it is irrefutable! I have given up trying to work out 'why Carr?' I just accept it as a fact. Even after Jane and Robert married, in 1886, as Murdoch; they still used Carr on the 1891 census? But I digress! This is all background but OLD GROUND: well chewed over already.]

Agatha Christie has nothing on this!!
I can only think that the existence of this 'mystery wife' was the cause of all this cloak and dagger stuff?
I MUST FIND HER!!!!!!
I thought for a while that it was David Montgomery they were hiding from but I think we have comfortably established that Jane's eldest Montgomery son visited, and married a Durham girl (but that is another story He hanged himself in prison!!!!) Don't go there .. also well chewed over!

I need to think before I reply to/comment on other posts
Thanks all of you, and hi LfW again..
Carole

Hi Julie

Robert is a bit of a lad.

I have checked for 1820 to 1830 and he is our only Robert born in that period.

This is a mystery worthy of an agatha christie novel LOL

Regards

Susan

Hi Carole
Sorry to miss you-long day at work and you are 2 hrs ahead of us? You may already know this but if not it fills a small gap, Jane was not with her husband in the scotland 1861 census, he was living with their daughter Christina:

David Montgomery
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Tranent, Haddington
Registration Number: 722
Registration district: Tranent
Civil Parish: Tranent
County: East Lothian
Address: Back Street (west Of Church St)
Occupation: Ag Lab
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 70
Line: 25
Roll: CSSCT1861_135
Household Members:
Name Age
Christina Montgomery 7
David Montgomery 56

and David jnr was boarding nearby:


1861 Scotland Census
about David Montgomery
Name: David Montgomery
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Tranent, Haddington
Registration Number: 722
Registration district: Tranent
Civil Parish: Tranent
Town: Tranent
County: East Lothian
Address: Church Street
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 80
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1861_135
Household Members:
Name Age
David Montgomery 9
Helen Reid 68

Helen Reid is listed as a Grocer.

I think the naming of their youngest child suggests that Robert was on the scene in 1859! I did wonder if when they 'eloped' they took Robert jnr with them? Maybe he died in infancy in England?

Couldn't find a relevant death for Robert Montgomery but free BMD has a Robert Pettigrew-death registered March 1861 in Easington Durham-just a thought-maybe a red herring.

Have trawled England & Scotland census' 1861 for Robert & Jane but found nothing that makes sense. There was a Jane & Robert Carr with son Robert 2 and William 10 months living in Durham but it says they were all born in Northumberland.

I wonder if it's worth looking at Scotlands people for any other Robert Murdoch's born Stair Ayrshire either side of 1829. If there aren't any it would establish that the Robert in Stirling in 1851 is the correct Robert? You might then at least be able to look into the 'Coach Driver' aspect perhaps via business Directories or something?

Julie

Hi Lost

I am sure carole will thank you however she is AFK till tomorrow.

So from me thanks :-)

Susan