Find Ancestors

I've been keeping the certs just incase 1 turns out to be a relation but if not i'll be giving them away to a good home x

ok I've hunted the certs out and here is all of the info on them

Reg dis. Chorley
Sub dis. Rivington
D.O.B 23.09.1905
Elizabeth Ellen Holland (f)
Father: Thomas Holland
Mother: Agnes Fisher
Father occ: General Labourer


Reg dis: Rochdale
Sub dis: Wardleworth
D.O.B: 20.11.1905
Elizabeth Holland (f)
Father: Edmund Fletcher Holland
Mother: Clara Howaith Rhodes
Father occ: Iron fitter

so there is no James the coal miner on either but like you say there may not have been a James in the first place

Thanx Evie

you've been such a great help in this topic I have found a single person on GR with the James you told me about in his tree so i've sent him a message and just waiting for a reply hopefully he will know if James had a daughter Elizabeth and if we're related got my fingers crossed on this 1

luv Jo x

We have also disregarded the ever-popular non-existent father scenario, in the case of a child born to an unmarried woman.

James Holland could have been a complete figment, or a grandfather or uncle, or a composite of real father's (or stepfather's) given name and mother's surname (Elizabeth's birth surname).

Holland could even be the surname of a stepfather.

On the two Elizabeth Holland birth certificates you obtained --

"there is a death record for an Elizabeth Richadson (married name) in 1969 with a date of birth - 25.09.1905 - there are 2 Elizabeth Hollands in that Q and I have purchased both - one has the DOB 23.09.1905 and the other is in december1905 and niether have the father as James"

-- who were both parents in each case?

Looking back through -- witness at the marriage was Joseph Richardson, likely Richard's brother.

I noted this death:

Deaths Mar 1930
Richardson Joseph 45 Houghton 10a 539

and wondered whether the child Joseph who died in infancy might have been named for him.

If witness Joseph was Richard's brother, and was the same as the Joseph who died in 1930, this is the closest matching birth:

Births Sep 1884
Richardson Joseph Houghton 10a 521

Just for kind of idle interest.

ok i've been doing some interagation of the family and still no body has heard of baby Joseph who died but the rest of the info above seems very possible so i'm gonna do a search for those persons in GR trees, see if I can find a relation or two i'll keep this thread open and up to date on what i find so that any hollands looking will hopfully have less difficulties than me

Jo x

My error in the census info for the Hollands -- I attached the

"Occupation: Colliery Labr (Miner)"

to Owen in 1901, but that was on the 1881 transcribed record (I still can't get anything but an error message for the 1901 image).

Me, I have to do some work, so I'm going to let you lose the sleep!

You saw the 1901 image and it says that the James Holland in question is a coal miner?

But then, wasn't everybody? Heh.

It defo says he's a coal miner..............hmm more interesting......I wonder if the accent the Richardson kids could remember stemmed from Irish as Owen came from Ireland......and the plot thickens

I'm really enjoying this I bet i'm up all night trying to link all of this info together x x

There are waaay too many James Hollands in Lancashire for me!

As for the one who married Jane Seery, this looks like the best candidate.


1881

Name: James Holland
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Owen
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Male
Where born: Rainton, Durham, England
Civil Parish: East Rainton
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 1 Kelsey House
** Registration district: Houghton Le Spring
Sub registration district: Hetton le Hole
ED, institution, or vessel: 11

Household Members:
Name Age
Bridget Holland 8
Isabella Holland 30
James Holland 2
John Holland
Katherine Holland 6
Mary Holland 4
Owen Holland 40


1901

Name: James Holland
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Owen
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Male
Where born: Rainton, Durham, England
Civil Parish: East Rainton
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 1 Kelsey House
** Registration district: Houghton Le Spring
Sub registration district: Hetton le Hole
ED, institution, or vessel: 11

Household Members:
Name Age
Bridget Holland 8
Isabella Holland 30 - born in Cumberland
James Holland 2
John Holland
Katherine Holland 6
Mary Holland 4
Owen Holland 40 - born in Ireland
** Occupation: Colliery Labr (Miner)


Grrr. Ancestry is messing me around and won't show me the image for the 1901 census, to see what that James's occupation was.

So to recap Elizabeth could have been born in 1903 her brother could have been born 1906 Her mother could be Jane Seery and she could have had a son named Joseph who was forgotten about..............this is a lot of coulds many avenues to follow here should keep me going for a bit.

EXTRA INFO STILL WELCOME

Thanx Jo x

Could be some excellent info here, if its the right James...I am going to order the birth cert for that Joseph and see if it is my Family because that will pose some interesting questions like why was he forgotten and never mentioned again....Ican't wait for the 1911 census it's going to clear up alot let me tell you x x x

Holland-Seery could be completely the wrong couple, I was just looking to see where Jane Seery might be, to see whether there's a James Holland in the vicinity who might fit the specs for Elizabeth's father -- since Jane Seerys are a little more scarce on the ground than James Hollands!

The most likely looking Jane Seery in 1901:

Name: Jane Seery
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Castle Eden, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Cowpen
Ecclesiastical parish: Horton
Town: Newsham Freeholds
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England


1881


Name: Jane Seery
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Castle Eden, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Haswell
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: Eight Rows Third
Registration district: Easington
Sub registration district: Easington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2

Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Seery 35
Jane Seery 1
Joseph Seery 14
Margaret Seery 36
Margaret A. Seery 5
Mary Agnes Seery 10

James may not have been from Houghton some people can remember a Lancashire accent from Elizabeths side................More confusion lol x x

Richard Richardson had a brother named Joseph I have hime in the 1901 census aged 4 and my mother says he had an accident on a train track but i don't know if he was a child or adult....it does seem possible also I think the other Joseph may have died young too if he is my family as i have not been told about him

Loving the confusion - Jo x

This is the only James Holland marriage registered in Houghton 1880-1905:

Marriages Sep 1904
Holland James Houghton 10a 849
Seery Jane Houghton 10a 849

Sorry -- I'd forgotten to delete that Liverpool one so I went back and did it!

And found the death in infancy of Joseph.

Do you have the info about Richard Richardson's family?

I'm just wondering whether young Joseph might have been named for this Joseph who died earlier that year, in case that would help to find anything in that direction:

Deaths Mar 1930
Richardson Joseph 45 Houghton 10a 539

Hmmm...interesting liverpool is a bit far to be my family but this Joseph 1 looks smack bang in the middle of my lot...I have never heard of him but still I think I'll kepp the record just in case

cheers Jo x

Was there another Richardson-Holland couple having children in Houghton reg dist?


Births Sep 1930
Richardson Joseph E Holland Houghton 10a 870

Could be a child who died in infancy ... yes:

Deaths Sep 1930 (99%)
Richardson Joseph E 0 Houghton 10a 425