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Hi Liz

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you only I thought I had better start on Xmas and stay off the computer for a while, I know its hard isn't it when you get obsessed with trying to find your family

Anyway, thank you so much for looking that up for me it really is much appreciated and giving me the info from it

Ah well I guess I shall be back to the drawing board with this one

Thanks again
Sheila

Sheila, I've been on ancestry world to see the names that Lisa found for you on the Directories and Members list. I'm afraid all it is is names and addresses but the name Johannes will be somewhere on the page and the word Mittel will be somewhere else. In other words it's picking out people named Johannes and if Mittel is also on the page, it's pairing them up. I didn't find Mouttell anywhere. Sorry.

Liz

Lisa

The way you pronounce it, is Mottool and I have found various spellings of it, Mattone, Moltone Mottoulle

Lettice would have been under the surname of Fitt when she arrived in New York in 1949.

I will see if someone will be able to look up on Ancestry World for me

Thanks for the info you have given me though

Sheila

Hi Sheila: If someone with World Ancestry can do lookups, there's a possibility of finding out who this Johannes was.
He (or they) is listed under the Directories & Members Lists tab. I am now finding him with just Johannes Mottoul (no middle name) and there are 55 results. An example is:
Amtliches Fernsprechbuch für den Bezirk der Reichspostdirektion Kiel 1941 (in German)

Have you tried variations of the name when searching? I've found my ancestors from official documents with the spelling of Vans, even though I have proof the name was Vaus.

How is the name pronounced? Mow-too, Mow-tool, Mot-ul? I tried immigration searches for Lettice arriving in the US with variations of her name, but maybe I didn't try enough variations.

Lisa

Johannes Ludivicus Mottoul my Gt Grandfather b1853 Belgium , Lettice Fitt's father, also had a son with the same name born 1874 Belgium, who is my Gran Letiice's half brother, so this is where I was thinking the half sister came about!!!

I know that my Gt Grandfather died in Swansea 1929 but his son I cannot trace from his marriage in 1913 also in Swansea, I went through all the Ancestry original BMD indexes but only found my Gt Grandfather in 1929

All the Mottoul's in Wales belong to me that I know, but sadly no one alive today

I wonder if any of those you found might have been him between 1902 - 1949

As far as I know Mottoul is a Belgium name but as it is a relatively newish country , it could be Dutch or French


Thanks again for your help

Sheila

Rose

Sorry for not getting back sooner, my cousin has the original photograph, which we took a copy of but sadly forgot to copy the back of it. They are away at the moment til after Xmas. But I did write the name down at the time to as what we all thought it was, Sylvond/Sylvand

Thanks again for your time
Sheila

Sheila: I'm still trying to figure out your family. Who is John L Mottoul (on FreeBMD), died age 76 in Swansea? I noticed that most or all of the other Mottoul's on FreeBMD you've accounted for. I see the ages of Lettice's siblings...how sad. When you mentioned their early deaths, I thought they were older children.

Ahhh, John L was Lettice's father. Mystery solved (for me, anyway). ;)

Have you tried searching the Mottoulle line? (In case you can find John L's rellie?) Is there a chance Eddie wasn't as close of a rellie as you think? Some people say "he's my cousin" when in fact it's actually a second or even third cousin. Just throwing out ideas, since you're at a standstill.

Several entries for Johannes Ludicvicus Mottoul found on Ancestry. He/they(?) was/were living in: Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia, Berlin, Saxony, etc. Was that a common German name, or could this be your Johannes? I see entries from 1902 through 1949

Hi Rose: There are Eddie Sylvond's in U.S. School Yearbooks, but when I try to view the images, there is no mention of the name. When I click on the Photos & Maps tab, sometimes I can see Sylvonds listed, and sometimes I cannot. The same thing that is happening to Sheila is happening to me.

Night, Sheila.

Hi Lisa,

So you're saying you're getting matches for entries that don't exist?


Sheila,

Any chance you could scan the back of the photo so we could see the name?

Rose

Lisa

I am glad you are still talking to me !!!!

What a lot of mouths to feed, those poor women, our female ancestors that is, had to put up with a lot didn't they back then thank goodness things have changed. So far I have found out that all my Grans siblings had died at a very young age, very sad when you see it in black and white. I think that this is why I am clutching at Eddie Sylvond so much knowing that it was a half sister she visited in America

My Mom, bless her, was very prim & proper, very naive too. If she knew what I had found out about her family, I reckon she would be turning in her grave, as both her grandfathers were bigamists. She did know that her own father had a mistress and was disgusted with him, she even told me she wasn't that sad when he died when she was 15.

Sometimes I wish I had asked so many more questions but in those days children were seen and not heard, so I wouldn't have got many answers I expect

Well I am off to bed now as it is the early hours here so if there are any more replies I shall answer you all in the morning

Thanks again for all your help

Sheila

Oh, Sheila! I don't know if I can help you any longer, after reading that! ;) Ok, I have a rellie who did somewhat the same thing. :)

I also have an ancestor who had 11 children and when his wife died after giving birth to the 11th, he married his older son's girlfriend, less than a year after his wife died. He went on to have another 8 children. Only 3 (think it was 3) died in infancy. A lot of mouths to feed, eh?

Thank you for sharing your information. It makes it more interesting to look, knowing family stories.

Hi Rose & Lisa

I am glad I am not going mad , sometimes when I put the name in nothing comes up and then another time it does!!! The mystery still goes on with the Sylvond name

This is for you Lisa, just to let you have another snippet into the lives of my Grans family, her father was still married in Belgium when he married my Gt Gran Catherine Hobbs, his wife in Belgium didn't die until a year after they married in Swansea, the little devil, but to all accounts he was a lovely man and stayed faithful to my Gt Gran thank goodness. My poor Mom would have died of shame if she knew!!!!

Thanks for all your hard work

Sheila

Rose, it must be an Ancestry problem. There are several Eddie's and after trying a few yearbooks, I don't see any mention on the pages for Eddie Sylvond!

Lorraine

Thank you so much for the info your a star

Wow, she was on the Queen Elizabeth too, the lucky old thing, the address is hers, so I know it is the right one.

I wonder why New York!!! do you think it was the major one of the time!!!

Its a shame they don't give us who they are visiting isn't it but I expect that would be too easy for us all, just know that photo is haunting me and I wish I could get to the bottom of it

Thank again Lorraine you have been a great help in solving another mystery

Sheila

Lisa,

I'm getting nothing for Sylvond at all.

Do you see anyone else with that surname?

Rose

Rose, this time it worked (right away)...I typed Eddie Sylvond and in the Photos & Maps category, his name is under the first three Sullivan names.

Something must be wrong with Ancestry because I get nothing when I use the name Sylvond

Rose

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Lettice A Fity
Name: Lettice A Fity
Birth Date: abt 1887
Age: 62
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 3 May 1949
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: New York and Cherbourg
Ship Name: Queen Elizabeth
Search Ship Database: View the 'Queen Elizabeth' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Cunard White Star
Official Number: 166290

image says fitt not fity

address
51 locless rd south yardley birmingham

occpation cook

boarded in new york

There is a
Lettice A Fity on the UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960, arriving, Southampton, England. Cannot view further details.
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I just read your post...If someone can access the UK record, it might give more clues.
Wow, what a lot of interesting things you mentioned! It sure brings life to the names.