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it also looks as thought the change in spelling came way after Graham thought it did!



I have found a William C Yates and Mary A Yates living in Cheshire on the 1891 ....................... but their eldest child was called Luther J Yates,, b ca 1883 Swansea????????



sylvia

Hi Sarah


Graham could ask for a reference check that father be named Joseph (nothing else to be stated 'cos there could be mis-spellings!)



that would mean GRO would only charge £3 instead fo £7 if it turned out to be wrong





sylvia

birth certificate for William John Yates, 1883


Births Mar 1883 (>99%)

Yates William John Swansea 11a 739





sylvia

Oooh, take it back, this looks promising:

Births Sep 1857
Yates William Charles Bermondsey 1d 65

I think it might be hard for him to get William's birth cert, Sylvia, there are an awful lot of William Yates born 1858-1860, sure some might be William Charles, but not everyone is recorded with middle name, even if they had one.

You need to get


birth certificate for William CharlesYates to prove that his mother was indeed Frances/Francis Carpenter


Is this is true, then you need to get

marriage certificate for Joseph Yates and Frances/is Carpenter to get the names of their fathers so that we can trace them on the 1841 census


If it is not true, then we have to try to find the correct marriage for Joseph.




There are about 6 Joseph Yates in Middlesex on the 1841 ....... difficult to work out which one of these might be yours.



sylvia

Not finding any obvioyus matches for Joseph Yates (or Yeates) in the 1841 census, so I think the marriage certificate would be the way to go there. If you can get a father's name it gioves us something to narrow records down. As he was born before BMD records, though, you won't be able to get a birth record, but maybe something in local records in Paddington?

Closest poss match:

Name: Joseph Yates
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Gender: Male

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

View Image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church First
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Anthony Yates 40
Francis Yates 40
Charles Yates 16
James Yates 15
Joseph Yates 13
Edward Yates 11

1851 Census

Name: Joseph Yates
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Paddington, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: Haggerstone West
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub registration district: Haggerstone West

Joseph Yates 25 Chair Sawyer
Frances Yates 25
Fanny C Yates 3
Joseph J Yates 11 Mo

Address:- 9 Milks (???Wilks) Place



sylvia

I think this is probably Francis Carpenter, but it looks like she was probably in service so no help on her parents. If you want to find more out about her, might be worth buying her and Joseph's marriage certificate.

Name: Francis Carpenter
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil Parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England


Registration district: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Sub registration district: St James
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Walton 40
Elizabeth Walton 40
Thomas Walton 20
John Walton 12
Thomas Tracey 15
William Coen 15
Francis Carpenter 15

Marriage certificate ....... as Yates

Marriages Jun 1882 (>99%)

WILLIAMS Mary Ann Swansea 11a 934
YATES William Swansea 11a 934





sylvia

BMD records have a match for Joseph Yates marrying Francis or Frances Carpenter in 1848, Bermondsey which would certainly match. Their eldest child was born in about 1851

1861 census has Joseph as a Sawyer born in Paddington

1871 says he's a "Chair and Cabinet sawyer" so this definitely matches the marriage certificate. I think you can confirm that Joseph and Francis are William C's parents

Well done Lynne, you beat me to it! Found the same family in 1861, looks like the best match:

Name: William C Yates
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Francis
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Newington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Newington
Sub registration district: St Peter Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 166
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Yates 35
Francis Yates 35
Joseph J Yates 10
Rachael Yates 8
Anthony J Yates 6
William C Yates 3
Henry T Yates 1

I wonder if the spelling change once he hits Swansea is a Welsh language thing? The letters of the Welsh alphabet make different sounds to the English. Possible!

Sarah (also Swansea)

Graham

just to answer one part of your question

"If I give the information that I know to be true would someone be able to assist me in confirming my findings ? I would really appreciate any help doing this as I obviously want to be as accurate as I can. Are there any charges for your help ?"


those of us who give help on these boards are all just members of GR like yourself, we use our expertise and subscriptions in various sites to help others find information on their ancestors.

For most of us, it is the enjoyment of finding people abd breaking down brick walls. Plus a respite from doing our own families.


There is consequently no charge at all


You have to appreciate that none of the help on here is given by GR, nor are any of us employed or paid by GR


We will not buy certificates for you to prove that you are following the correct line, although we will try to find evidence, and then tell you where and how to obtain the information

..... certificates are the only way to be certain that you have the correct people ................... and I assume that you have bought certificates over the last 16 years.

You will also discover that several people will work to try to help you, not just one person ...................... we all feed off each other, as one person finds soemthing someone else will run with it, and maybe go off at a tangent


I have a similar problem to yours in that my mother's paternal line apparently changed the spelling from Scholefield to Schofield sometime before 1814. Some of the children of that family reverted back to Scholefield, my line did not. To prove that we belong to them is very very difficult because it was before official registration of births mariages and deaths!



sylvia

This looks as though it could be the 1871 census showing William Charles Yates with his mother and father Francis and Joseph Yates, plus siblings:-

Name: William Chas Yates
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Francis
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell St Giles
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Peckham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View Image
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Yates 45 - Chair and Cabinet Sawyer (Lawyer)
Francis Yates 45
Joseph James Yates 20
Anthony John Yates 16
William Chas Yates 12
Henry Thomas Yates 11
James Yates 9
George Yates 6
Rosanna Yates 4

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 735; Folio: 123; Page: 7; GSU roll: 824714

and again in the 1861 census:-

Name: William C Yates
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Francis
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Newington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Registration district: Newington
Sub registration district: St Peter Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 166
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Yates 35 - Occupation - Sawyer
Francis Yates 35
Joseph J Yates 10
Rachael Yates 8
Anthony J Yates 6
William C Yates 3
Henry T Yates 1

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 341; Folio: 74; Page: 31; GSU roll: 542618

Lynne

For reference - 1881 Wales census showing William Yates in Swansea as a Lodger:-

Name: William Yates
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: London Camberwell, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Swansea St Thomas
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 51 Sebastapol St
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Excavator
Registration district: Swansea
Sub registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Cox 41
Hannah Cox 61
Henry Jecks 22
James Butts 19
Thomas Riley 23
William Yates 22

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5364; Folio: 17; Page: 28; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342293

Lynne

Hi all,

I have been working on my tree for the last 16 years and am always wondering if I have traced the right individuals. What I am looking for ideally is someone to do some searching and to confirm my findings.I would rather not tell this person what I have found so far as this may influence their ability to be TOTALLY objective. Often when I am looking at my tree I often wonder if I have gone down the wrong road with some of them. I am particularly interested in my paternal ancestors. The name appears to change from the current Yeates to Yates around 1859 when my great great grandfather was born.
If I give the information that I know to be true would someone be able to assist me in confirming my findings ? I would really appreciate any help doing this as I obviously want to be as accurate as I can. Are there any charges for your help ?
The information I know to be true is as follows.

My father was Sydney John Yeates born 15th April 1917 in Swansea, he married my mother Esme Thomas in Swansea on 9th March 1940.
His father was William John Yeates who was born on 13th Feb 1883 in Swansea (and later married Minnie Collins on 15th May 1915 in Swansea)
William John Yeates father William Chas moved to Swansea from London Camberwell around 1880 and can be found on the 1881 Swansea census aged 22 where is listed as originating from Camberwell. According to William Charles marriage certificate (to Mary Anne Williams in Swansea on 15th May 1882 both aged 23) his father was Joseph Yates a cabinet maker.

I have traced the tree back much further than this but as I said earlier, I am looking to confim my findings before I continue any further.

Many thanks for your time Graham Yeates (Swansea)