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Good morning,

Just had a 'little look around' and this is what I found.

I believe it all connects but obviously it MUST be properly checked and proved by certs!!!

Will probably have to post this in several sections as it will be too long for one post!
.................

So.. Working on the info from John's Wedding Cert:

Firstly - witnesses:

Leonard Lunn:

Marriages Mar 1923
Lunn Leonard Mawson Doncaster 9c 1131
Mawson Mabel A Lunn Doncaster 9c 1131

Doesn't seem to connect - probably just a friend!
..................

Maggie T Da?????in ?

This would be Maggie T Darwin, and this her marriage

Marriages Mar 1924
Brooks John Darwin Doncaster 9c 1022
Darwin Maggie T Brooks Doncaster 9c 1022
....................

Again, no obvious connection to the names but followed through to 1901:

1901 England Census
about Maggie T Darwin
Name: Maggie T Darwin
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation: Adopted Daughter *****
Gender: Female
Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Askham Bryan
Ecclesiastical parish: Askham Bryan St Nicholas
Town: Askham Bryan
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England


Registration district: Tadcaster
Sub-registration district: Tadcaster
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
Francis Darwin 31
Elizabeth Darwin 34
Maggie T Darwin 9


Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4433; Folio: 123; Page: 4.

Source Information:

Looking for a marriage of her adoptive parents:

Marriages Sep 1893
Darwin Francis E.Retford 7b 7
Read Elizabeth E. Retford 7b 7
.........................

** We now have a connection to the name READ, and to Nottingham !!

Dea x

Hi again Dea - we might have to set up our own page to swap info!

The marriage took place on 4th December 1920 between

John Read, a bachelor aged 24, working as a washer hand and residing at 19 John Street. Father is Charles Read, a carter.

Minnie Fowler, a spinster aged 22 and residing at 22 John Street. Father is Thomas Fowler, a miner.

They married at The Parish Church, Wombwell, Barnsley (probably now known at St Mary's as this is where I was christened) and the witneses were Leonard Lunn and Maggie T (surname difficult to read - looks like Danirin - Definitely starts DA possibly ends IN)

Hi again,

May not be able to do much today but could you put all the info on here from the marriage cert please?

Names, addresses, ages, fathers, occupations, + witnesses.

I will see if I can find anything for you.

Dea x

*** TRYING TO FIND JOHN READ'S ANCESTORS ***

Now that I've established John Read's marriage to Minnie Fowler and his address prior to his marriage, I am trying to find further info.

John died in Wombwell, Barnsley in 1984.
He married Minnie Fowler in 1920 and was widowed in 1939.
He re-married to a Mary Eleanor Violet Cansfield (? year) - she died 1989.

According to John's marriage cert to Minnie, his father is Charles Read who in 1920 was a Carter.
According to his death record, John was born 27/10/1896. (this would make John to be aged 4 or 5 on previous birthday on 1901 census)

I have searched birth records for a John Read born Q4 1896 and can find:
Births Dec 1896 (>99%)
Read John Pontardawe 11a 920
Read John Blackburn 8e 421
Read John Walsingham 4b 297
Read John James P Chorlton 8c 838

I have searched the 1901 census and cannot find a John Read born 1896 or 1897 with a father named Charles.
The only John on the 1901 census with a father named Charles was born c1898 - aged 3 on the census.

Is it likely that the census year of birth is out by 2yrs? Or could the date of birth listed on the death record be wrong? Does John or Charles Read appear on your family tree?

Any more help would be much apreciated x

This seems to be 'that' Minnie's family in 1911 - perhaps you can find some more contacts from it?

Last names FOWLER
Last names Algorithm Exact
Residence BARNSLEY
Other person last names FOWLER
Other person last names Algorithm Exact
Other person first names MINNIE
Other person first names Algorithm Exact


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Schedule type Last names First names Sex Birth year Age in 1911 District / other County / other Transcript Original page
HOUSEHOLD FOWLER ADA F 1873 38 Barnsley Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOWLER ELSIE F 1906 5 Barnsley Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOWLER HAROLD M 1897 14 Barnsley Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOWLER SIDNEY M 1909 2 Barnsley Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOWLER THOMAS H M 1878 33 Barnsley Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOWLER WILFRED M 1911 2 MONTHS Barnsley Yorkshire West Riding
1
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Dea x

Dea - you're amazing!

Thanks

That will save my hair - as I was ready to pull it out!

'By George. I've GOT IT !!!...........

Marriage:

Minnie Fowler to John Read
Dec Q 1920 Barnsley 9c 554.

Dea Xxx

P.S.

You say the death you found for a Minnie aged 41 in 1939 would make her born 1889 ???? - This would actually make her born c 1898 , which would match the 3 year old you have on 1901.

Dea x

can anyone check the 1911 census for me please to see if John and his parents were living at 19 John Street? And to tell me who else was in the household? Thanks

the only death for Minnie Read in Barnsley is in 1939 and she is 41. which means she is born c1889.

completely forgot about his war medals until you mentioned them!

I've been so busy concentrating on trying to find his parents and his marriage!

Looked at the 1901 census. He was definitely born 1896 but none of the 7 have a Charles as head of family, nor do the 10 in 1897, and only one John Read born c1898 has Charles as his father (but John has a middle initial of S).

According to FreeBDM, John Read born Q4 1896 was born in either Pontardawe, Blackburn, Walsingham or Chorlton

WWWWWWWWWoooooooowwwwwwwww !!!!

You didn't tell me that earlier !!

Do let me know how you get on and what to look at next!

Dea x

Dea - you are an Angel!!!!

We have my great-grandad's war medals and he is indeed number 33497

I will check the John Read's on the 1901 census straight away for a father named Charles!!!!

Thank you!!!!

Thanks,

It doesn't really help you at the moment but there are somer Army Pension Records on Ancestry for a John Read - No 33497 from Wombwell.

1915 + 1918 show his address as 19 John Street, Wombwell (so that doesn't match but it was many years earlier!!)

His occupation though was a 'Colliery Surface Worker' in 1915, (although many people living around that area probably were!!)

It might be worth looking at though as up until around 1920 next of kin were his parents (father = Charles). which cuts down the dates to find a marriage for him if it is the same one).

Might be worth you having a look??

I will see if I can find anything else.........

Dea x

Dea - the address is 38 Aldham Cottages, Wombwell and John Read is a colliery surface labourer

What was the address on the birth cert please?


OOhh - and father's occupation?


Dea x

This is sooooooooo frustrating!! lol.

I thought I was starting to get somewhere when I received the birth cert this morning - now I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall!!!

Ricochet - I was also wondering if a marriage had ever taken place!! The frustrating thing is, without a marriage cert to give Minnie's fathers name, I can't be sure of her family line. I also can't find my great-grandfathers line either without his parents names as there are 4 John Read's born in Q4 1896.

I really don't want to hit a blank so early into the tree. Any more suggestions anyone?

It won't give her exact DOB...............only her age 'as known'.

If the deceased was a married woman, it will include the name of her husband.......

The other scenario, of course, is that Minnie and John didn't actually marry..............

update - just searched Death records and found a death registered for Minnie Read in Q2 1939 at Staincross volume 9c page 273 (which is Barnsley) aged 41.

If I order that certificate, will it give me any information other than her exact date of birth and death?

I have searched FreeBDM for a marriage between 1914 and 1929 between John Read and Minnie.

It brings ip the following -

Minnie Hogbin 1915
Minnie Howles 1918
Minnie F Cook 1919
Minnie B Davey 1920
Minnie Gilbert 1929
Minnie Williams 1929

I have then checked all these surnames against marrying a Mr Fowler to see if Fowler was a surname acquired from a first marriage - NONE of them correspond apart from the last one - but surely that has to be discounted if John Read and Minnie (formerly Fowler) have 2 children in 1924 and 1929.


UNLESS

maybe Minnie was a lot older that my great-grandfather which means she could have married before 1914 (and would mean that she isn't the Minnie Fowler in the 1901 census that I had thought her to be). He was born 1896. I know my grandfather was born 1929 - and I am told by relatives that his mother (Minnie) died when he was around 6yrs old.

yeah that had crossed my mind too. This is the first time I have ordered a birth certificate before and I says the mother is 'Minnie Read formerly Fowler'. I assumed this to mean her maiden name.

But could it be that it's a former married name? Which means the rest of my search on Minnie Fowler's family is unnecessary?

Or would she have been born Minnie Fowler but married John Read under a different surname?