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and this is presumably the Bamber / Hoole marriage

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1849
BAMBER William
HOOLE Rebrcca
Preston, St John

Derek,
"But in 1872 Mary is Mary Bamber..not Slater......"

The Mary they are living with is Mary Slater, but on the same census there is Mary Bamber, Ann's sister so she could have been the witness, they are often brothers or sisters, so could be her.

lancashireann,
Julie found the Bamber girls with their parents in the 1851 census and father was not Henry but James:-
James Bamber 40 born: Preston, Lancashire
Nancy Bamber 34 born: Preston, Lancashire
Henry Bamber 15
Alice Bamber 8
Jane Bamber 6
Mary Bamber 2

This could be James + Nancy's marriage?

Marriage: 4 Apr 1836 St Andrew, Leyland, Lancashire, England
James Bamber - Bachelor of Whittle le Woods in this parish
Nancy Preston - (X), Spinster of Whittle le Woods in this parish
Witness: Richard Preston; Alice Waddington, (X)
Married by Banns by: Gardner Baldwin Vicar
Register: Marriages 1834 - 1837, Page 88, Entry 263
Source: LDS Film 93953

Dea x

You say earlier:
"have found Ann daughter of James and mary (1861 Census) but born Salford..........which i quite fancy........BUT "


If it helps you to eliminate - this is the marriage of the James + Mary with the daughter Ann born in Salford:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1841 (From LancsBMD site)

Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BAMBER * James EYRE Mary Manchester Collegiate Church (later Manchester Cathedral) Manchester CATH/23/79
BAMBER * James HUNSTONE Mary Manchester Collegiate Church (later Manchester Cathedral) Manchester CATH/23/79

* Mary was born EYRE, married a HUNSTONE, then James Bamber !!

Dea x

sorry Derek- was concentrating on Catherine's entry and missed Julie's. Howvever I think Catherine was likely to be right with the marraige of James & Bamber & Nancy Green rather than Nancy Preston. Lancashire bmd site usually gives mmn for children born in Preston & I found these all with mmn = Green

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1838
BAMBER Elizabeth Walton-le-Dale

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1840
BAMBER Benjamin Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1841
BAMBER Benjamin Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1842
BAMBER Alice Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1845
BAMBER Jane Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1847
BAMBER James Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1849
BAMBER Mary Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1851
BAMBER Nancy Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1853
BAMBER James Preston

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1862
BAMBER Ann Leyland

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1863
BAMBER William Leyland

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1865
BAMBER Edward Leyland

the names fit better that those with mmn = Preston

site name lancashirebmd.org.uk

That's look interesting, but problem:-
The Ann Bamber that we are looking for was born in 1852 not 1862 ?

the other names up to the Leyland births which could be a different family fit with the names on Julie's 1851 & 1841 census. Could your Ann have been registered as Nancy, the 2 were often interchangable or have we got the wrong family completely.

Hi everybody..am immensely grateful for all your efforts....briliant..
BUT....I am now very confused.....Mary COULD have been the sister of Ann...and it begins to look as though James Bamber was NOT married to a Mary..the Slaters confuse me...

Can we try another tack???? It's me who believes my Tree is wrong, because I thought Mary bamber witness was Ann's mother......clearly not so.......

Thus..can anyone confirm (or deny) that my Tree is correct after all.
Trouble is that it does not show a sister Mary for Ann

Here's whats on my tree:

William Bamber (b 1826) married Rebecca Hoole c1848..children ..Joseph 1849..Ann 1852..William 1854..no Mary

and the Jane Hoole mentioned on previous posting had GOT tp be relative.

Any comments gratefully received

Derek

if Ann's marriage certificate says her father is James - a spinner then she presumably is not the Ann who is the daughter of William & Rebecca (baptism 21-9-1851 when William is described as a wool comber).

Have you got Ann & Edward in later censuses to prove her age - it has been known for people to give the wrong age on a marriage certificate.

just found this one in 1881

Nancy BENNETT Head M Female 29 Preston, Lancashire, England Cotton Rover
Mary Hannah BENNETT Daur Female 8 Preston, Lancashire, England Scholar
Alice BENNETT Daur Female 7 Preston, Lancashire, England Scholar

Source Information:
Dwelling 6 Shuttle St
Census Place Preston, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1342012
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4231 / 7
Page Number 8


On Ann's marriage she is described as a rover and her address was Shuttle st (for which there is a note in Preston that the 1871 census originals are missing!)

Ann & nancy are often interchangable names

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1872
BENNETT Mary Hannah Preston
mmn = BAMBER

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1874
BENNETT Alice Preston
mmn = BAMBER

1881?????

Edward H. BENNETT Household
Male

Other Information:
Birth Year
Birthplace Preston, Lancashire, England
Age 31
Occupation Printers Labourer
Marital Status M
Head of Household Joseph GOODEIR
Relation Prisoner
Disability

Source Information:
Institution "Her Majestys Prison" Preston Lancaster
Census Place Preston, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1342012
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4231 / 97
Page Number 17

Hi lancahireAnn....thanks for all your work.....I am quite happy qith Edward H Bennett's story..and his parentage.......Mary H Bennett is a staple part of my Mother's line.Have got all that...........including Edwards time in the nick!!

I am aware that Ann nad Nancy are often interchangeable......but "Often" doesn't give us any certainty.. I have a similar preoblem elsewhere with Ann and Hannah

There are two different 1871 census entries for Ann Bamber as a neice....one of HOOL..and one of NATER..thst could of courswe be SLATER..or even Staley

I have the lancashire BMD's and if i accept IGI's view that Ann was christened 21.09.1851..she would indeed have been 20 still when she married in 1872

There are two Ann bamber's christened St.John Preston in 1851..one with mmn Hool..and one with mmn Richardson.

On the marriage cert for Ann and Edward he is a machinist...late father;s occupation Cork Cutter.born out by 1861 Census....

James Bamber father of Ann is elusive..abd wherever i find him he doesn't fit anything.Perhaps the cert is wrong?

Jeez i need a large Scotch.

Thanks agin

Derek

there are just too many Bambers in Preston!!!

I found quite a few of various parentage in St John's alone but there are several churches (St george's is only down the road from St John's) & I did not have time to look at the others to see if I could find another Ann with father James.

curiosity - what was Edward in the nick for?

If you are still searching next time I go to the CRO I will have another look. Not sure when I will go next - a lot depends on the weather at this time of year - today we have had a band of rain so the CRO was as good a place to be as any.

the other problem is that if the census returns for Shuttle St in 1871 (see note with 1881 census above) are missing you may never find Ann on the 1871 census. I do know there were one or 2 areas which are not available of Preston.

edit - I have just looked at the street map and that area is definitely missing. I was looking for an address in the road that crosses it recently and that was not there either - it is just behind the prison so close for visiting!

Hi Ann..you're very kind..and i like you humour about prison visits....maybe its a new line of enquiry to see what yet another!! of my ancestors was in the nick for!!

You might know i have two very successful derbyshire threads..so if you need any help in that area just yell.

Hey..talking of too many Bambers..you want to help me with Gregsons???? preston is and always has been only the greatest hotspot of Gregsons in the world...my mother's name!!.....ans she was illegitimate..can fel another large Scotch coming up!!

Derek

don't drink TOO much scotch or you will never sort out the Gregsons!
we even have a few of those in our village just outside Preston. If you do want any look ups doing just let me know. My lot are at the boring stage at the moment so I keep flitting around with other things.

Hi Ann....its flan baked potato and sweetcorn right now!!.........and i'll never sort opiut the Gregsons!!.Just by way of a bit chat..my mother was a gregson..the daughter of an unmarried Ellen Gregson....where do we go from there!!.............I spent months lookng for a david james Gregson (soldier deceased!! haha)..he never existed!
Then my sister remembered a little card in my mother's prayer book..mum's dea by the way.....with love and gratitude to James Gregson and Mary Hannah Gregson
Well i knew that James, my gt grandfather was married to isabella maguire........so who was this Mary Hannah????

So the lateral thinking came in...did Isabella die and James remarry Mary hannah???????? YES HE DID!!

and Mary hannah Bennett was the daughter of Ann Bamber and Edward Hugh Bennett!!

what fun!!

so now you know!!

Derek.

I've resorted to the chocolate bar and coffee. Why did people have to invent fathers, it just complicates things for their descendants!

When you have sorted out the Bambers & Gregsons (nice to know how they fitted together) would you like a go at my John Jones b Liverpool parents Wm & Elizabeth, inconsiderately no unusual middle names or William Miller father of John, son of John deceased by 1849. No imagination this family - they were all called John, William or William John with few siblings.

Hi Ann.....any chance of an approximate date for John Jones?? I'll have a go at anything!!

Derek

12 August 1853 - the only year missing from St Nicholas Liverpool baptisms & no birth reg that I can find. Got everything after that as we have his family bible so even have his exact birth but he did not record his parents. Actually you've set me thinking - I don't think I have sent for any certificates for qtr4 - might be worth a try.