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That is indeed an object to envy, Sonya.

I gather there's a document in the Devon archives attesting to a lease of mining rights on land in Cornwall to a grx2 grfather of mine and his business partner. He evidently prospered, whatever stock he came from; haven't quite figured that out yet.

When he remarried in 1875, he called his father a "Gentleman" on his marriage certificate. (His father was most likely dead for decades, actually.)

However, in his brother's 1823 baptism, their father is identifed as an Ag Lab. ;)

John Wright Parkinson was obviously pretty well-to-do since his occupation is declared on the marriage certificate as "Gentleman".

There is a family legend but family legends are like Chinese Whispers and get distorted down the generations. Anyway, for what it's worth, it says that John Wright Parkinson was of Blue Blood, and after getting JPG's mother in the family way, he offered to adopt the boy because his own sons had turned out to be wastrels and ne'er-do-wells. JPG's mother refused, but JWP supported his illigitimate son and gave him an education.

Family legend aside, what is true is that John Parkinson Green was a well-educated man who became an engineer. Early photographs show him to be very well-dressed and in one taken in 1871 when he would be around 24, he looks positively Byronic. In later photos he looks extremely distinguished, and I also have one of him in Freemason's regalia.

This afternoon, I discovered an old brown document that turned out to be his indentures to engineer John chadwick of Manchester from Aug 27th 1861 to July 31st 1867.

Thanks to this, I now know the name of JPG's mother - Eliza Green of 2b Howard Street, Bery New Road, Manchester. Presumably that would be Bury New Road.

How's that for a breakthrough?

The agreement required that John Chadwick be paid a premium of £20. That would be well out of the reach of most people, especially a single mother, so maybe there is some credence to the family legend after all?

In return, John Parkinson Green would be paid 4 shillings a week for his first two years, 6 shillings a week for the third year, 8 shillings a week for his fourth year. 10 shillings a week for his fifth year and 12 shillings a week for his sixth year.

I can tell you, it was an amazing feeling to have a piece of history like that in my hands. A real privilege!

Sonya

this is pure guesswork but..........

Baptisms: 21 May 1826 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
John Wright - Son of Betty Wright
Abode: Pennington
Occupation: Single Woman
Baptised by: Edmund Sibson Minister of Ashton
Register: Baptisms 1825 - 1829, Page 54, Entry 426
Source: LDS Film 1885649

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1851
PARKINSON John
WRIGHT Betsy Blackburn, St Mary the Virgin (Blackburn Cathedral)

I don't think anyone explained in that thread *why* parts of Salford were named after parts of London!

I was just talking with someone from England recently about place names in Canada. I grew up in London, in the East End, even. Same sort of story, different London. You find little hamlets all over southern Ontario named for big cities in England. Lambeth was a rural crossroads until urban sprawl, we have Watford, Chatham, Exeter, Tottenham ... Brussels ... we had Berlin too, until WWI. Now it's Kitchener. ;)

Thanks for clearing that up Janey - how confusing to have both names. I was going by the lancs bmd which said St Pauls Pendleton when it should actually have said St Paul Paddington, Pendleton

Never knew there were areas of Salford named after parts of London. Isn't it amazing what other things you learn from family history research.
I found out quite a bit about Preston when doing something for someone & I only live a few miles from there.

Aha.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/churches?CCC=LAN,
GR=3219,FT=Paddington%20St%20Paul%20Church%20of%20England

"St Paul, Paddington" is the name of the *church*.

http://services.salford.gov.uk/forum/forumposts.asp?forum=22&id=84714

The Parish Church of Saint Paul the Apostle, Paddington
Address - Paddington Close, Churchill Way, Salford, M6 5JG
... Paddington covered the Ellor St area of Pendleton.
... The area of Salford [Pendleton] that you are referring to had districts named Paddington, Windsor, Richmond and Islington.
... Dont forget Blackfriars and the Adelphi, all named after parts of London.


Cleared that up, no farther ahead on JPG ...

I apologise again for the confusion I've caused both on here and the Mary Woolhouse thread.

I worked out the date of birth from the marriage certificate, which states that his age was 31 in 1878, so I stand by my estimated date of 1847.

As for the Pendleton/Paddington confusion.........

I have re-read the original marriage certificate, and although it's fragile and faded, you can see quite clearly that it states "Marriage solemnizedat the parish church, in the Parish of St Paul Paddington in the County of Lancaster". It is signed at the bottom by "Francis Wright, Vicar of St Paul Paddington." Altogether, Paddington is mentioned three times, and it certainly can't be mistaken for Pendleton.

So if there was any mistake there, it was the vicar's, not mine for once!

Where I have gone wrong is stating that he was born in Charlestown. I have had a magnifying glass to the document, and what I took to be place of birth is actually "Residence at the Time of Marriage".

As I said on the Mary Woolhouse thread, I hadn't looked at the original certificate since 2003 because it is in such a fragile state, and at the time I was just beginning my tree and lacked experience. I have certainly made life difficult for myself through inattention to detail.

I shall now start looking for his father John Wright Parkinson, occupation Gentleman, outside of Lancashire!

Thanks once again for your help.

Sonya

Hmm. ;)

That wasn't faulty reading, that was faulty memory and sloppy work!

Woolhouse. Woolhouse. I shall write it 100 times. Copy & paste makes that easy. ;)

got you there Janey!

Woolstone ....... Woolhouse??

Paddington.....Pendleton

it's v easy to read what you think is there not the actual words isn't it?

I asked in the other thread where the Lancaster came from for Mary Ann Woolstone Green -- all the censuses after marriage say born Norwell, Nottinghamshire, and that matches with censuses before marriage where she is the daughter of a schoolmaster, as on her marriage certificate.

Makes me nuts when people state "facts" that seem to have come from nowhere, and in fact are not correct! I spent not a little time hunting for those facts, before checking the post-marriage censuses and getting the real ones.

In 1881, John is

Name: John P. Green
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary A.
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Pendleton in Salford

and the subsequent censuses are all consistent.


Oh -- I didn't even realize this thread said they were married in "Paddington". I'd knocked off the other side of the marriage in the Woolstone thread already, and just skimmed the opening post of this one when I saw it was the Green side of the same marriage. Had I seen that, I would have pointed out the error!

Yes, the marriage was definitely in Pendleton, not Paddington. Proofreading is such a good idea.

am I missing something here?

is this the 1881 census which says he was born Manchester?

John P. GREEN Head M Male 34 Manchester, Lancashire, England Mechanical Fitter & Turner
Mary A. GREEN Wife M Female 26 Norwell, Nottingham, England
Edith A. GREEN Daur Female 2 Pendleton, Lancashire, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 17 Strawberry Hill
Census Place Pendleton In Salford, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341943
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3949 / 54
Page Number 10

on the other thread he is asking for a Mary Woolhouse born in Lancaster??

can you amend your post to give the correct place names please

marriage

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1878

WOOLHOUSE Mary A GREEN John Pc
Pendleton St Paul

Charlestown is also an area of Pendleton

How did you find his place of birth from the marriage certificate?

Oops, just had a look at the other thread. Thanks, Janey, I'm duplicating again!
Sonya, it would have been better to stick to the other thread.

This is a confusing one! I hope Sonya returns to the thread, According to the 81 census John P. was born 1847, Manchester.
There is this one:

Births Sep 1847 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Green John Manchester 20 577

There are births to match the siblings from that 1851 census as well:

Births Mar 1844
GREEN David Parkinson Liverpool 20 397

Births Mar 1846
GREEN George Parkinson Liverpool 20 _1_

Births Jun 1840
Green Thomas Parkinson Liverpool 20 372

But that John is still 10 years too old.

His age is consistent in the 81, 91 and 01 censuses, btw (see other thread) -- 34, 44, 54.

Glad I didn't start off on the Parkinson side after sorting the Woolhouse side in this thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=606461

There is this marriage

Marriages Dec 1837

Green David Liverpool 20 56
PARKINSON Ann Jane Liverpool 20 56

So this birth is nearly 10 years off

Births Dec 1838
GREEN John Parkinson Liverpool 20 312

Cheers Sue

and here's the marriage for david and ann:

Marriages Dec 1837 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beeforth Martha Liverpool 20 56
Green David Liverpool 20 56
Jones Jane Liverpool 20 56
Lawless Peter Liverpool 20 56
Marshall Isabella Liverpool 20 56
PARKINSON Ann Jane Liverpool 20 56
STODDART John Liverpool 20 56
WILLIAMS Owen Liverpool 20 56

and the birth for their john:
Dec 1838
GREEN John Parkinson Liverpool 20 312

Regards Linda :)

Curiously there's this family of Parkinson Greens:
1851 census
Sarah Place, Finch St., Liverpool
John Parkinson, head, 66, sail master
Jane, wife, 67
David Green, head, 38, tailor
Ann Jane, wife, 34
John Parkinson Green, son, 12, tailor's apprentice
Thomas Parkinson Green, son, 10, tailor's apprentice
David Parkinson Green, son, 7
George Parkinson Green, son, 5
James Green, son, 1
All born Liverpool.

Unfortunately this only muddies the waters, but everything seems to fit!!

Name: John Parkinson Green
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Ann Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 1h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 194
Household Members: Name Age
David Green 38
Ann Jane Green 34
John Parkinson Green 12
Thomas Parkinson Green 10
David Parkinson Green 7
George Parkinson Green 5
James Green 1