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Why can I find only 3 out of 8 birth registrations? No marriage either, and I've tried every mistranscription I can think of........weird......

Thanks Janey and :o( re cats. Yes Blossom thats them :o) these are the kids I have ... you have to love typos ;o) This family has been a pain to trace...

Births Mar 1870 (>99%)
Fermin George Henry St. Saviour 1d 50

I think WIlliam was also a Fermin but dont seem to have noted him down ?

Births Jun 1875 (>99%)
Firmin Robert Edward St. Saviour 1d 165

Birth register Sept 1877
FIRMIN Arthur Albert St. Saviour 1d 171

Emma Mary and John you have found. John and Rose were twins but whe was on list as Rosa.....

Births Sep 1887 (>99%)

FIRMIN John Edward V St.Saviour 1d 102
FIRMIN Rosa Harriet V St.Saviour 1d 102

Births Mar 1892 (>99%)
Firmin Alfred Walter St. Saviour 1d 44

does this help?

am beginning to think like others they didnt marry.......just pretended they did!!

Deaths Sep 1925 (99%)
Firmin Jemima 77 Camberwell 1d 640

I have her death as well if that helps discover her maiden name?

Women's death certificates wouldn't commonly give their birth surnames, as far as I know - but I've heard different here.

What you need to do is pick one of the children you are certain of and get the birth certificate. It *will* give Jemima's birth surname.

Hi, I ordered a birth cert and it confirms that George's partner was Jemima Firmin formerly Davies ..........but we can still speculate as to whether or not they actually were married lol as I cant find a marriage registered anywhere

Jan you failed to say that on the 1871 census George and Jemima were living with her parents Edward Davies born South Wales and his wife Jemima born Southwark. Both families are living in the house of Frank Rogers.


EDWARD DAVIES Pedigree
Male Family


Marriages:
Spouse: JEMIMA PURVEY Family
Marriage: 11 JUN 1831 Saint George The Martyr, Southwark, Surrey, England

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.

Mel, I can't find that in the 1871 for love nor money. A place name maybe?

Janey it's the 1871 census for George Fermin and Tema!! with baby George at 15 months. It does'nt give them on the page ref only on the actual census form. There is no fascility for seeing other on the page on this ref. but they are on the census just above George and Jemima.

1871 England Census
about George Fermin
Name: George Fermin
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Tema
Gender: Male
Where born: Essex, England
Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St John Walworth and St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Trinity Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 399
Household Members: Name Age
George Fermin 24
Tema Fermin 23
George Fermin 1 5 months

RG10; Piece: 613; Folio: 36; Page: 67;

Edward Davies is 60 and his wife Jemima is 59. It is on the new thiny which I have'nt got my head around yet!!!!!!

Edward Davis Head 60 abt 1811 Male Southwark SHOULD READ SOUTH WALES<<<<<
Temmina Davis Wife 59 abt 1812 Female Southwark
Edward Davis Son 20 abt 1851 Male Southwark
Joseph Davis Son 17 abt 1854 Male Newington Surrey England
Ada Boden Granddaughter 5 abt 1866 Female Southwark
George Fermin Head 24 abt 1847 Male add Essex England
Tema Fermin Wife 23 abt 1848 Female Southwark George Fermin Son 1 5 months abt 1869 Male Southwark

Sorry I had to leave this morning as had to go to hospital with my OH, then his brother arrived in the afternoon and stayed for ages...............................

By the way Stratford is Essex. It comes under E 15. I used to live 11 miles from there.

Mel

Ta Mel! It does say Davis and not Davies? I'd go check, but I think I'll wait until we hear whether this was something Jan already knew ...

Janey it also says FERMIN and not Firmin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What more can I say???? Not everybody could read and write in those days you know. They would'nt have known if it was spelt right or not, it was just their name to them.

1851 England Census
about Jemima Davies
Name: Jemima Davies
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward
Mother's Name: Jemima
Gender: Female
Where born: St. Georges, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Southwark St George
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address: Bond Street.

Registration district: St George Southwark
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 249
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Davies 34 1817
Jemima Davies 34 1817
Benjamin Davies 16 1835
Ann Davies 10 1841
John Davies 6 1845
Jemima Davies 3 1848
Edward Davies 1 1850
All down as born St George Surrey as were the names before them.

The father Edward is a Smith same as the 1871 census.

HO107; Piece: 1565; Folio: 52; Page: 42

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Jemima Davies
Name: Jemima Davies
Year of Registration: 1847
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St George Southwark
County: Surrey
Volume: 4
Page: 438

Think this may be George in 1861. His father is also a Smith.

1861 England Census
about Geo Firmin
Name: Geo Firmin
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Josiah
Mother's Name: May A
Gender: Male
Where born: Stratford, Essex, England

Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:Adam & Eve Court

Occupation:



Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 135
Household Members: Name Age
Josiah Firmin 45 Maplestead Essex
May A Firmin 46 Or MARY 1815 Spitalfields, Middlesex
Wm Firmin 14 1847 Greenwich, Kent
Geo Firmin 11 1850 Stratford, Essex

RG9; Piece: 66; Folio: 130; Page: 23

Mel ... I wasn't sure whether we had figured out yet where the DAVIES name came from in the first place ... and so whether it was possible the name was actually DAVIS. "Davies" seemed to be hearsay only at that point, as I recall.

I thought my question was reasonable since that seemed to be the only trace we had of the surname when I asked. It was a question. That was all. Obviously, if the family is from Wales, "Davies" is what it would surely be.

I will bid the thread adieu as it seems to be in hand.

Thanks for all your time and research folks :o) I ordered a cert and as I posted on the 6th and it confirmed DAVIES, as we all know spellings vary on everything, especially with this family!!

As stated before a cousin supplied the info so that 1871 census you have found with them living with his in-laws is brilliant ...

It is looking more likely then that Josiah is his father........still would like to have solid confirmation on a marriage cert but that still looks highly unlikely? Then it opens the can of worms of can I trace Josiah back LOLOL

again many thanks for your time and trouble

Jan X

Hi Jan,
This is on Ancestry but I can't view it as I don't have that sub.

England (General): Parish and Probate Records
Birth, Marriage & Death Whoops! We don't have a preview for this yet, but there's a lot to see once you sign up.
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Name: Firmin, Josiah, Junr.
Vital: location, General, England
Vital:
It may be nothing but there again it may hold some clue.

Now this posses a question!!! This seems too much of a coinsidence.

1871 England Census
about James Firmin
Name: James Firmin
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A
Gender: Male
>>>>Where born: Maplestead, Essex, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Waterloo Road First
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 198
Household Members: Name Age
James Firmin 57
Mary A Firmin 56 Spitlefields Middx
Harriett Mathers 7 Grandaughter 1864 Lambeth, Surrey
RG10; Piece: 648; Folio: 57; Page: 29

ohhhhhhhh now that looks good............ I bet another typo. I have a friend who found me a Pallots marriage for Josiah Daniel Firmin and Mary Ann Taunton in Hackney in 1835 ...subsequently I have found deaths for Josiah Fermin in Islington 1890 and Mary Ann Firmin in Islington in 1880 on BMD ...............

Household FIRMIN, James 1815 66 M Islington Middlesex

and this on findmypast........ listed as a widowed lodger? Born in Halstead Essex?

We could'nt be sure but there is this on IGI.
JAMES BROWN FIRMIN Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 11 JAN 1811 Lamarsh, Essex, England

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM FIRMIN Family
Mother: SARAH


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.


SARAH ANN FIRMIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 JUL 1807 Lamarsh, Essex, England

2. JOHN FIRMIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 MAR 1809 Lamarsh, Essex, England

3. WM FIRMIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 26 OCT 1804 Lamarsh, Essex, England

4. MARY JANE FIRMIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 12 FEB 1806 Lamarsh, Essex, England

5. JAMES BROWN FIRMIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 11 JAN 1811 Lamarsh, Essex, England

You know I said I lived on the Essex Suffolk boarders, well Lamarsh was the next village down from me. I lived in Alphamstone . Used to go through Lamarsh to get to Sudbury. My best friend still lives there!!