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Hi All,

I'm new to this so please go easy on me!

I'm still at the stage one of building my family tree where i'm asking family about the history of my family. Something came up, i suppose you'd call it a skeleton in the closet.

My Great Grandad Henry White b 06/10/1881 (apparently in Wrexham can't find any evidence of this on Ancestry) marriend a Prudence Parry( b 08/07/1883 in Frodsham/Helsby Cheshire )(Not sure if this is maiden name or 1st Married name) or where they got married.

Apparently Prudence married before she marriend Henry, a fact backed up by the fact that I can't find their 1st 3 children in Sealand, Deeisde, Flintshire, but i can ind her other 3 children born in Deeside.

I need to find a common Surname for

Alice b 31/10/1906
James b 24/02/1909
Henry b 24/04/1911

Again presuming they were born somewhere in the Cheshire or North Wales area, what would be the best way to do this?

Appreicate all comments as i'm really stuck at this point! Deinatly looking at low cost options as money is tight.

Thanks

When were the children you have found born ? if after 1911 then the record will show their mums maiden name then you will know if Parry was her single name or previous married name.
Have you looked on the 1911 census for any of the family

Hi Shirley,

Thanks for your quick response.

The actual Children of Henry and Prudence were

George White b 16/07/1913 (unsure on this one)
Elsie White b 25/3/1915
John White b 06/10/1919
William White 27/12/1923

The family rumor says Prudence's 1st Husbad was killed early in the 1st World war, which throws up confusion about George, unless they moved to Sealand as he was posted at RAF Sealand?

This appears to be the only Prudence born in Cheshire in Q3 1883

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Sep 1883 (>99%)
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JONES Prudence Chester 8a 355


so could this be marriage?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Dec 1909 (>99%)
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JONES Prudence Chester 8a 720
WHITE Harry Chester 8a 720


Andy

Andy,

Thanks also for your quick response.

Being married in 1909 wouldn't match with the "family folklore tale" that's not to say this marriage isn't them though...

So perhaps Henry is the son of William White and Prudence Jones... and the War story isn't so accurate.... interesting!

Could this be Elsie's birth, mothers maiden name Jones

Births Jun 1915
White Elsie M Jones Hawarden 11b 376

You quote births in from 1913 the mmn will be on the record .What does it sat their mums maiden name was as i am having trouble finding them

so mmn appaers to be Jones
Births Dec 1919
White John Jones Hawarden 11b 367

Where did you get the name Parry from?

Shiley and Selena,

Thanks you both for your help. From what you've both said it looks like her maiden name was Jones.

I'm guessing these 2 were born to a father called Parry then (from family folklore ) but not sure where?

Alice b 31/10/1906
James b 24/02/1909


I shall have to hunt around and see what i can find... Which after a quict look on Parry and Jones hasn't turned up much. :(

Just a little observation
If she had children in 1906 /9/11 and her husband was killed in WW1 one would have thought there were more children before 1914 if her husband was then called up . she seems to have stopped from 1911.Possible I know but may be significant

1911 census-all seem to be in the same household:
1911 census
JONES ALICE F 1907 4 Wrexham Denbighshire
HOUSEHOLD JONES JAMES M 1909 2 Wrexham Denbighshire
WHITE HARRY M 1882 29 Wrexham Denbighshire
WHITE PRUDENCE F 1885 26 Wrexham Denbighshire

Maureen

Wow Maureen, that's really interesting

Either Alice and James took her (Prudence's) name from Birth, or Prudence's 1st Marriage was to a man with the same name as her.

I do know that Alice and James both went on to take the name White at some point. Would adoption ahve been common during these times?

Is there any other information on the 1911 census about the family.? Are they based in Wrexham at this point or in Deeisde?

Hi Mark,
I rather think the children were born as JONES. Have a look at FreeBMD for possible births. I found a likely Alice in Chester.

Formal adoption didn't come into play until the late 1920's,so the children just took on "Dad's" name.

Maureen

EDIT: The 1911 is pay per view. That's all the info I was able to glean from it.

...and Prudence would ahve been heavy with Child for the 1st White of the family Henry. The census was taken on 02/04/1911 and Henry was born 24/04/1911

Sorry Maureen,

One last question, Do you think these Children were born without a father? Would there be any other reasons that they would have taken her name. Would the best way to find out be go and dig out the birth certificate now that i have confirmation of their surname?

Hi Mark,
Not quite sure of the question. I think the children were illegit.,yes,but their birth certs will only give Prudence as the mother,so not much more helpful info.

Maureen

Thank you all very very much for all your help!!!!

possible
1891

Address: Infirmary, Regent Street, Wrexham Regis, Wrexham
HICKS, Katherine Jane Head Single F 41 1850 Matron Of Infirmary
Oxford
Oxfordshire VIEW
DRINKWATER, Richard House Surgeon Single M 28 1863 House Surgeon Of Infirmary
Llangollen
Denbighshire VIEW
MULLINS, Elizabeth S Servant Single F 46 1845 Nurse
Corsham
Wiltshire VIEW
MAXWELL, Mary Servant Single F 22 1869 Nurse
Ireland VIEW
LILLEY, Rosina Servant Single F 21 1870 Nurse
Newark
Nottinghamshire VIEW
SPEAKE, Emily Servant Married F 48 1843 Cook Domestic Servant
Dawley
Shropshire VIEW
SPEAKE, Emily P Servant Single F 19 1872 Laundress Domestic Servant
Horsehay
Shropshire VIEW
GRIFFITH, Mary C Servant Single F 37 1854 Housemaid Domestic Servant
Holyhead
Anglesey VIEW
VAUGHAN, Sardinia Servant Single F 17 1874 Kitchenmaid Domestic Servant
Caergwrle
Flintshire VIEW
VICTORY, John Patient Married M 40 1851 General Laborer
Ireland VIEW
JONES, William Patient Single M 28 1863 Ironworker Puddler
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
PARRY, John Patient Married M 61 1830 Wheelwright
Abergele
Denbighshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, Peter Patient Single M 23 1868 Coal Miner
Rhos-Llanerchrugog
Denbighshire VIEW
WHITLEY, Jarvis Patient Married M 40 1851 Quarryman
Moss
Denbighshire VIEW
DAVIES, Edward Patient Widower M 60 1831 Platelayer
Llanfair
Denbighshire VIEW
ROWLANDS, Charles Patient Married M 37 1854 General Labourer
Chester
Cheshire VIEW
EDWARDS, Thomas Patient Single M 29 1862 General Labourer
Denbighshire
Pentre Broughton VIEW
JONES, Robert Patient Single M 22 1869 Postman
Ruabon
Denbighshire VIEW
JAMES, George Patient Single M 15 1876 Gardener
Pembrokeshire
Tenbig VIEW
STEPHENSON, James Patient Single M 16 1875 Clerk
Benton
Derbyshire VIEW
ROBERTS, William Patient M 12 1879
Wrexham
Denbighshire VIEW
FISHER, Thomas Patient M 10 1881
Wrexham
Denbighshire VIEW
EDWARDS, Charles Patient M 8 1883
Wrexham
Denbighshire VIEW
HUGHES, Eliza Patient F 4 1887
Wrexham
Denbighshire VIEW
JONES, Maria Patient F 8 1883
Wrexham
Denbighshire VIEW
JONES, Prudence Patient F 11 1880
Denbighshire
Pentre Broughton VIEW
LLOYD, Mary E Patient Single F 26 1865 Cook Domestic Servant
Borth
Merionethshire VIEW
LLOYD, Elizabeth Patient Single F 20 1871 Housemaid Domestic Servant
Mold
Flintshire VIEW
EDWARDS, Elizabeth Patient Single F 22 1869 Housemaid Domestic Servant
Wrexham
Denbighshire VIEW
ROBERTS, Margaret Patient Widow F 68 1823
Ruthin
Denbighshire VIEW
JONES, Mary Ann Patient Single F 17 1874 Dressmaker
Rhos-Llanerchrugog
Denbighshire VIEW
WILSON, Elizabeth Patient Married F 52 1839
Bangor-Ys-Coed
Flintshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, Jane Patient Married F 42 1849
Denbighshire
Adwy VIEW
SULLIVAN, Agnes Patient Single F 18 1873 Dressmaker
Milford Haven
Pembrokeshire

or

1891

Address: Afon Goch, Ruabon
JONES, John Head Married M 48 1843 Labourer
Llangollen
Denbighshire VIEW
JONES, Elizabeth Wife Married F 45 1846
Frodsham
Cheshire VIEW
JONES, George T Son Single M 16 1875 Labourer
Llaincross
Cheshire VIEW
JONES, Robert W Son Single M 14 1877 Labourer
Wooley Edge
Cheshire VIEW
JONES, Prudence L Daughter Single F 5 1886
Hyton Quary
Cheshire

Births Mar 1879 (>99%)
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Jones Prudence Wrexham 11b 302

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Births Mar 1880 (>99%)
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Jones Prudence Wrexham 11b 300

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Births Jun 1880 (>99%)
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JONES Prudence St. Asaph 11b 385

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Births Mar 1881 (>99%)
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JONES Prudence St.Asaph 11b 327