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several trees on ancesry have Thomas Munday, father of Thomas Chambers Munday

eg:-

Thomas Munday
Birth: Jul 1751 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Death: 11 Jul 1832 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Marriage: 22 Jul 1782 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Spouse: Deborah Chambers

F: Thomas Munday
M: Mary Bennett



This particular tree takes the Munday's back to 1668. The others probably also do the same.



sylvia

from www.freebmd.org.uk


Marriages Sep 1842 (>99%)

MUNDAY Deborah Amesbury 8 341
WILLIAMS Adam Amesbury 8 341



Deaths Mar 1845 (>99%)

WILLIAMS Deborah Amesbury 8 213




Marriages Dec 1846 (>99%)

Munday Anne Amesbury 8 445
Williams Adam Amesbury 8 445



From ancestry.co.uk


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: Ann Chambers Munday
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 15 Nov 1816
Christening Place: Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Father's Name: Thomas Chambers Munday
Mother's Name: Mary


Ann Chambers Munday can also be found in several family trees on ancestry




Is this Deborah???


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: Deborah Munday
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 16 Sep 1821
Christening Place: Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Father's Name: Jeremiah Munday
Mother's Name: Mary Ann



and some trees include her as well.




England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: Thomas Chambers Munday
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 2 Jun 1783
Christening Date: 30 Sep 1783
Christening Place: Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Thomas Munday
Mother's Name: Deborough



again, several family trees


Thomas Chambers Munday
Birth: 2 Jun 1783 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Death: 5 Oct 1844 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Marriage: 10 Feb 1808 - Steeple Langford, Wiltshire, England
Spouse: Mary Thring

F: Thomas Munday
M: Deborah Chambers



There was apparently another Thomas Munday born about the same period who married an Ann:-

Thomas Mundy
Birth: 1771 - Newton Tony, Wiltshire, England
Death: 22.3.1844 (22 Mar 1844) - Durnford, Wiltshire
Marriage: 12.10.1797 (12 Oct 1797) - Durnford, Wiltshire, England
Spouse: Ann Millard

F: (Name Unknown)
M: (Name Unknown)


Could this have led to confusion????


Thomas and Deborah's marriage?? These who we presume to be the parents of Thomas Chambers Munday

THOMAS MONDY Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: DEBORAH CHAMBERS Family
Marriage: 22 JUL 1782 Shrewton, Wiltshire, England

---------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

-----------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M152291 1557 - 1837 1279340 Film NONE





there's lots of information out there!!!



sylvia

so here is some confirmation of those submitted records

these are from records on www.ancestry.co.uk. So far as I know, this information has been extracted from the parish records .... but you need to check.



England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: Adam Williams
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 May 1820
Christening Place: Maddington, Wiltshire, England
Father's Name: Joseph Williams
Mother's Name: Fanny


There are also several trees on ancestry where Adam is shown. This is an example taken from just one of them

Adam Williams
Birth: 1819 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Death: 1890 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Spouse: Anne Chambers Munday

F: Joseph Williams
M: Frances ( Fanny) Clilford



and

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: William Williams
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 27 Jul 1817
Christening Place: Maddington, Wiltshire, England
Father's Name: Joseph Williams
Mother's Name: Fanny



Similarly, there are several trees, but there seems to be some confusion as to who he married!

William Williams
Birth: 1817 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Death: 7 May 1896 - Devizes, Wiltshire, England
Marriage: 18 Dec 1842 - Wiltshire, England
Spouse: Jane Ingram

F: Joseph Williams
M: Frances Clilford


OR

William Williams
Birth: 27 July 1817 (27 Jul 1817) - Maddington, Wiltshire, England
Death: 20 March 1887 (20 Mar 1887) - Hereford, Herefordshire
Spouse: Elizabeth Pritchard

F: Joseph Williams
M: Francis Clilford


OR

William Williams
Birth: 27 July 1817 (27 Jul 1817) - Maddington, Wiltshire, England
Spouse: Anne Chambers Munday

F: Joseph Williams
M: Francis (Fanny) Clilford




from a tree on ancestry

Joseph Williams
Birth: 1791 - Wiltshire, England
Death: 13 Jul 1861 - Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Marriage: 9 Dec 1813 - Maddington, Wiltshire, England
Spouse: Frances Clilford

F: William Williams
M: Catherine Kellow





so there's lots of information there.



You should think about at the very least taking out a 2 week free trial on ancestry and seeing what is in these trees!



sylvia

I doubt that Adam and William were twins, even though they are both shown as being age 20 on the 1841 Census

For some reason, ages on the 1841 Census for almost everybody over the age of 15 were rounded down to the enarest 5


so someone shown as age 20 could be actually be aged anywhere between 20 and 24.


This is from the International Genealogical Index on www.familysearch.org .. the Mormon site. Unfortunately it is a Submitted record ..... which means the information has been sent in by someone, probably a member of the LDS church, and there is no back-up documentation, so the information cannot be trusted unless and until you can find the actual parish record.


Adam Williams Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 22 MAY 1820 Maddington, Wiltshire, England

Parents:
Father: Joseph Williams Family
Mother: Fanny Williams

----------
Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter.



and


Williams Williams Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 27 JUL 1817 Maddington, Wiltshire, England

Parents:
Father: Joseph Williams Family
Mother: Fanny Williams

----------
Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter.



Possibly, Joseph and Fanny's marriage????

This is an Extracted record, taken from the actual parish record.


JOSEPH WILLIAMS Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: FRANCES CLILFORD Family
Marriage: 09 DEC 1813 Maddington, Wiltshire, England

--------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

----------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M152301 1652 - 1895 1279340 Film NONE





and here is the submitted version of that marriage, showing how the submitter has made a guess at the marriage dat!

Joseph Williams Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: Fanny Williams Family
Marriage:

--------
Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter.





sylvia

Hello all

WOW ! and Thanks to Janice Sylvia & Rose.

My Grandmother was named Mary after her Maternal Grandmother, and Jane after a cousin, Jane Wells. My Mother related that where Grt. Gr/father Wms worked, the 'gentry' on receiving the news of the birth also had a guest called Mary Jane staying with them at this time; they assumed that Joseph and Emma had called their daughter after their guest. Little did they know!

Well, that's solved George - brother to the Groom.

I wonder whether Adam and William were twins, by both being 20 in the same year, or perhaps the enumerator just rounded up the figures.

Family lore has it that the young Fanny Williams born abt. 1861 when a toddler either climbed onto a wall independently, or was held insecurely and tragically fell sustaining fatal head injuries. I don't know whether the Zion Chapel in Shrewton remains, but where she fell was over into the graveyard where she was later buried, anyway, that's the story. The name wasn't carried on with the rest of the family - as far as I know.

The next piece of the puzzle is Adam Williams and Ann [Chambers] Mundy.

Adam married a Deborah Mundy [daughter of Jeremiah Mundy]; there was no issue I believe with Deborah; all of Adam's children were with his second wife as something must have happened to Deborah as he then married her cousin Ann Munday [daughter of Thomas Chambers-Mundy, Glove & Leather Breeches Maker, Tailor and a Parish Clerk for 40 years of Shrewton, Wilts.] I believe Ann was born abt. 1817 - the only christening I could find was May 9, 1813 ????? I have some notes referring to Thomas - women in his life a Deborah and a Mary possible marriage in Shrewton September 30, 1793 ? All from Shrewton.

Any help appreciated.

I apologise that I 'tell a tale' each time with the different people, but I guess my Gran. must have told my Mother etc., and in one way, they live on .....

The only other way I can shut up is:

Does anyone know how to go about putting all these tales together? No one in the family seems interested. I find them so interesting and I would love to bring them 'alive' somehow.
[In my dreams.........]

Thank you are two simple words, but they do mean a lot.

Ann

Emma 1861:

1861 England Census
about Emma Marsh
Name: Emma Marsh
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Monxton, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Monxton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Andover
Sub-registration district: Ludgershall
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
William Marsh 40
Mary Marsh 44
George Marsh 18
Christopher Marsh 16
Henry Marsh 13
Anna Marsh 11
Mary Ann Marsh 9
Emma Marsh 4

Rose

Adam in 1841:

1841 England Census
about Adam Williams
Name: Adam Williams
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Shrewton
Hundred: Branch and Dole
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Amesbury
Sub-registration district: Orcheston
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Williams 45
Fanny Williams 50
William Williams 20
Adam Williams 20
Thomas Williams 15

Rose

1861:

1861 England Census
Name: Joseph Williams
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Adam
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Shrewton
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Amesbury
Sub-registration district: Orcheston
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 103
Household Members: Name Age
Adam Williams 42
Ann Williams 44
Robert Williams 13
Joseph Williams 10
Frank Williams 7
George Williams 4
Harry Williams 2
Fanny Williams 7Mo

Rose

Joseph in 1851:

1851 England Census
about Joseph Williams
Name: Joseph Williams
Age: 4 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Adam
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Shrewton
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Amesbury
Sub-registration district: Orcheston
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 55
Household Members: Name Age
Adam Williams 32
Ann Williams 34
Robert Williams 3
Joseph Williams 4 Mo

All born Shrewton.

Rose

Hi Ann


thank you for returning and telling us the information on the certificates.

I am so glad that we were able to help you!



George Williams could be a cousin?????



sylvia

Hi Ann,

Thanks for coming back and giving us the news - we don't often get to hear the end of the story!

'Full age' means they were over 21 - and therefore didn't need parental consent to get married.

Best wishes,
janice

Hello all

This is to let you know with much appreciation to all who helped, that I have received the Birth Certificate of my Grandmother.

Mary Jane was b. on 11 August 1884 to Joseph Montague Williams and Emma Williams formerly Marsh; Joseph's occupation is stated as Gardener and he registered the birth on 23 September 1884. The birth was in the sub district of Bramley in the county of Southampton. Reg. District Basingstoke. Funnily enough in 1919, Mary Jane Caudle [nee Williams] gave birth to her first daughter, Daisy Winifred on September 23.

Thank you everyone

I have also received the Marriage Certificate of my Grt. Grandparents. Reg. District Andover. 1877 in the Parish Church of Monxton in the county of Southampton on December 24, age full {what exactly does that mean?} Joseph was at Longparish at the time of the marriage his occupation was that of a Gardener; Emma was at Monxton, and was employed as a Servant. Father {Wms.} Adam Williams Shepherd.
Father {Marsh} William Marsh Labourer. They were married in the Parish Church by Edmund or Edward Dunford, the Rector. In the presence of:
George Williams ? Jane Pilbury.

I don't know that much about the Marsh family, but the ? is that - as far as I know Adam Williams had three brothers Charles who married Sarah Shergold {daughter of Daniel Shergold} I think they had a son Harry; William who married Sarah Ingram no issue? and Thomas who it is thought remained a bachelor.They all came from the village of Shrewton, nr Devizes in Wiltshire. So that's a bit of a puzzle.

I am still awaiting certificates in the quest for the Parmee/ Davies lineage.
I am so pleased that - even though it was not in HER lifetime - to have a copy of my Grandmother's Birth Certificate. I appreciate it as a legacy of her life, and if not for her, none of us further down the line would be here!

Ann

As they say 'you will know when I know' - without all who came before us, we wouldn't be here, they have given us the legacy of Life.

HIS HER THEIR story ries.

Thanks again

Come back and let us know what is on the marriage cert so they can be located on earlier census

Ann

you are very welcome to whatever help and information we could find for you!



sylvia

With much appreciation to ALL

This evening I have applied for the Birth Certificate [if only this had all been available when my Gran. was alive] ; and her parents Marriage Certificate. I look forward to their receipt.

They had 11 children and as with most, traversed the counties for employment in Ag. lab. with their children being born in different farm properties where they gained employment.

Their last home was indeed in Staines Mdx.

Thanks again

Order online at
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Each cert costs £7 if you have the reference.

You need to register on the site first but this is free.

Glitter Baby, Selena, Janice, Gwyn, Sylvia, Rose, Quinsgran

THANKS to ALL

Next step

To where do I apply for the Birth Certificate of Mary Jane Williams?
Marriage Certificate of Joseph [what a middle name Montague!] and Emma Williams?

To reply I would require the cost and an sae [poss. 2]; do I email first to ascertain such details and then apply snail mail ?

Thanks for your patience

1911 census.
Joseph Montague Williams 1851Shrewton.
Emma 1856
Daisy Victoria 1897
Margaret Christina 1902.

living Staines Middlesex.
You have to pay to see other details

1891 - as William rather than Williams

Joseph M William
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Spouse's Name: Emma
Where born: Shrewton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Crondall
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Crondall
County/Island: Hampshire
Registration district: Hartley Wintney
Sub-registration district: Odiham

Joseph M William 40
Emma William 34
William H William 12
Florence Emma William 9
Geo Arthur Garnet William 8
Mary Jane William 6
Catherine Ann William 4
Joseph William 2
Lucy Anna William 10/12