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now u have a point there because apparently his father died so i will write the names down and try and quiz my nan x

Hi Sylvia,
i am beginning to think the same as u and that he made everything up but why would he put a middle name in ? i just cant work it out my grandmother said he ha lots of brothers too but she is not well enough to tell me the names x

What about this one Zoe?
If he went to sea this is a likely place to do it from , no father showing , but middle initial 'H'


1881 England Census
about James H. Hawkins
Name: James H. Hawkins
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Portsea
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address: 10 Wilton Terrace
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Landport
ED, institution, or vessel: 44
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Harriet Hawkins 52
Harriet A. Hawkins 23
Kate Hawkins 18
Jane E. Hawkins 16
James H. Hawkins 9
Eliza Guy 43


View
Original
Record

View original image

I also hate to say this


but because there is a father's name on a marriage certificate does not in fact mean that there was a father, or a father with that name.


Sometimes, if a child lost his/her father at a young age, then they might not remember the correct name of the father.


It is however very common to find that an illegitimate child puts the name of a person in the father column on the marriage certificate. The name could be the name of his real father, of a relative, of a person in the neighbourhood, a person in the news, or a made-up name.


The rationale is that it looked better for the in-laws for there to be a father.



This is where I am having problems.


I have been looking on the censuses for a James Hawkins born ca 1870 +/- 5, in Kent ........... there are quite a few, but none that fit your criteria



sylvia

Chances are Zoe that James was not born for 1871 census and that Henry died before 1881 so you won't find them together , I would send for that birth certificate, at least it will eliminate him if not...but may just confirm his father's name .

Just in case you are not in that area Zoe, Medway is the area of kent, which includes Rochester

"before 1934 see Rochester Castle Precincts; Rochester St. Margaret Infra; Rochester St. Nicholas; Strood Infra; Frindisbury Infra; Frindisbury Extra; Strood Extra; Chatham"

I used to live near so know it is very close .

hi thanks for your reply yes it is from my grandmothe but having seen the marriage certificate with his father on i thought maybe i can search a james with a father henry andrew but cant find anything for him either so i am so stuck and really do appreciate your help thanks x

OK


now you have to realise that people, even your grandmother, are only human.


The dates they have written down or remember, are not necessarily correct.


The dates on a gravestone are only what the family knows ..... and they only know what they have been told by the deceased person.



As an example ............... we all believed that my grandfather was born on Decemebr 25 1884 or possibly December 25 1885 ....... depending on what he said at any particular moment. The family always had to go to his house to see him on Christmas Day.

NO ...... he was born January 9 1885.

His son discovered the birth certificate after grandfather died in 1963


What we don't know is whether his parents had started the deception when he was a baby ........ to save money on presents. BUT he must have known because he had the certificate.


So ............. advice #1. Extend any searches by upto 5 years on each side of the alleged birth date.


I have looked on freebmd.org.uk ...... and there is NO James Hawkins born and registered in any place that includes Strood during the period 1867 to 1873.

There are several James Hawkins born in Kent during that period.




Secondly, is the information on his birth place being Strood from the same sources?



sylvia

HAWKINS James Medway 2a 475

June 1872 this is the closest for a birth

Hi many thanks for your help,
I know he was born because my granmother has it in her diary and it matches the age on his marriage cert which i have , i put the info i have on ancestry. I have been to his grave and seen his year and date of birth but other than that he seems invisible x

How do you know when and where he was born?



sylvia

ITS FROM A TREE ON ANCESTRY

hi where did u find that info i think its what i already put on but yes thats the dates :) thanks

i was told by my grandmother aged 90 that his father died in a train crash when james was only 11(1881ish ) but what i cant understand i have seen his grave got his marraige cert but he is not on any census records, please i am stuck x

James Hawkins
1870-12-14
in Strood Death
1948-11-12
in Sheffield
Parents & Siblings Henry Andrew Hawkins (1850-) (Unknow`n) (Mother) )
Spouse & Children Rosa Twyman (1893-1961) Emma Dorothy R Hawkins (1919-)1870
14 DecBirth
Strood1917
4 Aug Age: 46 Marriage to Rosa Twyman
The Parish Church, Broomhall.1948
12 NovAge: 77 Death
Sheffield.
Rosa Twyman 1893 – 1961 Emma Dorothy Rosina Hawkins 1919 –

I cant find him before or after his marriage but i am looking for him with his father on the census 1871/81 yes because apparently he went to sea at 13 years of age. thanks so much for your reply

Are you looking for him before or after his marriage?

Hi iam looking for james hawkins born strood kent 1870 father henry andrew hawkins(train driver) he married in sheffield in 1917 to rosa twyman. i cant find him anywhere please i have a major brick wall.
thanks to anyone x