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Fledgling....Only 2 recorded deaths islington for Charles Phelps...

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

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Deaths Dec 1881 (>99%)
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PHELPS Charles 2 Islington 1b 163

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Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
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Phelps Charles 1 Islington 1b 250

Morning Fledgling....Good to hear some things are falling into place....You should be able to see the Streets on "Google Earth"...dont know how it works but I am sure someone can advise..!

Thank you Dea and Erin for all this x I found Margaret and Charles in 1881 with just the two children Catherine (aged1 1880c) and Charles (aged 2 1879c) ( couldn't find in 1891 ... know i know why) .. wonder if charles died young then as not in the 1891 but another younger Charles has appeared .
Thanks for all the address info , I'll see i can get any pics
Best Wishes
x
Just printed off census for 1881thanks Erin seen that all the family lived at that address too ! I hadn't looked above - So there's Charles mum and Dad Thankyou ... what a full household I make it 12 family plus the three boarders . Thats got the son Charles who seems to have died before 1891 .. daughter Catherine , who becomes Kate in later census and then Katherine when married ( shes my nans mother) . I'm hoping her marriage certificate will arrive tomorrow

Fledgling.....
From Free BDM....
Deaths....

Reg: March 1914...Henry Dowd aged 75 Islington.
Reg: June 1917....Catherine Dowd aged 73.Islington

Fledgling...Highbury Mews...Just up the Road from earlier addresses..off the Main Hollaway Road at the Intersection of Highbury and Islington.....

Fledgling....Re; Freeling St. it is still there and up towards Hollaway/Camden area but not far from previous addressess of the O'Dowds...would love to see the house and find out how they managed with all those folk inside....!!

In case you are 'struggling' to find them on 91 - they are mistranscribed:


Margaret Dowd (married to Charles PHELPS!!) at No 2, Highbury Mews.

1891 England Census
about Margaret Philips
Name: Margaret Philips
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Kerry, Ireland

Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England



Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Highbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Philips 32
Margaret Philips 29
Cathrine M Philips 10
James Philips 8
Walter Philips 5
Harry A Philips 5
Charles W Philips 11 months




Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 177; Folio 16; Page 25; GSU roll: 6095287.

Dea x

Morning Fledgling.....
You may have missed this from 1881 Census..but here is Charlie's family... All living together 58 Freeling St.


Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James PHELPS Head M Male 60 Cheltenham, Gloucester, England Labourer
Sarah PHELPS Wife M Female 43 Chelsea, Middlesex, England
John PHELPS Son M Male 24 Islington, Middlesex, England Labourer
Thomas PHELPS Son Male 17 Islington, Middlesex, England Labourer
Mary Ann PHELPS Dau Female 15 Islington, Middlesex, England
William PHELPS Son Male 11 Islington, Middlesex, England
George PHELPS Son Male 9 Islington, Middlesex, England
Joseph PHELPS Son Male 1 Islington, Middlesex, England
George WILLIAMS Boarder U Male 46 Cheltenham, Gloucester, England Labourer
William WATSON Boarder U Male 28 Islington, Middlesex, England Labourer
William BONNER Boarder U Male 28 Islington, Middlesex, England Labourer


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Source Information:
Dwelling 58 Freeling St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341051
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0234 / 107
Page Number 48

Well, it is a mystery but the info on census is not always correct. - We will just have to keep looking for a birth.

She is consistent with Ireland as her birthplace on all but 1871. - 1881, 1891 and 1901 all show Ireland.

However, here she is on 1911 and is back to being born in Middlesex (Islington)

1911 Census Household Transcript

Search againName: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born: Report error View Original Page
PHELPS, CHARLES HEAD MARRIED M 52 FRUITERER ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, MARGARET WIFE MARRIED 33 F 47 ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, HARRY SON SINGLE M 23 MEAT PORTER ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, WILLIAM SON M 13 SCHOOL ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, HELEN DAUGHTER F 11 SCHOOL ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, GEORGE SON SINGLE M 19 CARMAN ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, WALTER THOMAS SON MARRIED M 6 CARMAN ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, ROSE WIFE MARRIED 4 F 36 ISLINGTON LONDON
PHELPS, THOMAS SON M 11 MONTHS BLACKFRIARS S E
A household occupies a single original household page.

In cases where a household was too large for one page an institution schedule was filled in instead.

Institutions, vessels and military buildings may span more than one original page.

You will be charged 30 PayAsYouGo credits for each original page you view.
PHELPS GEORGE (RG14PN816 RG78PN28 RD10 SD2 ED17 SN56)
Address 99 GROVE ROAD UPPER HOLLOWAY LONDON N County London
District Islington Subdistrict Upper Holloway
Enumeration District 17 Parish Islington


Dea x

Thanks loads Dea x
Thats them with Margaret odd though the difference from 1881 and marriage info .. re birth places
Best Wishes
Fledgling

Is this the one you wanted from 1871?

1871 England Census
about Margaret Dowd
Name: Margaret Dowd
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Catherine
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Islington St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 64
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Dowd 36 labourer. b CORK, Ireland. !!!
Catherine Dowd 28 b. CORK, Ireland !!!
Mary Ann Dowd 11 .............. All children born Middlesex. ???
Margaret Dowd 9
Joanna Dowd 5
Catherine Dowd 3
Dominick Dowd 1

at 8 Rose Thorn Court

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 280; Folio: 5; Page: 3; GSU roll: 824921.

Dea x

Morning Fledgling....I cannot suggest which site is best to subscribe to ...(I have do not used any but have had cause to use Scotlandspeople in the past which was good value for money).Before you go spending lots of money on pay per view sites work out what it is you need to know and see if you can get any of the excellent researchers on GR lists to point you in the right direction...You will need to spend money on Certs. but thats the only way you can confirm or not if it is "your" family.
If Maggie was the daughter of Harry and Kate (Catherine) then she would be on the 1871 Census....I dont have that but you could always ask if someone could look this up for you...
There were no passenger lists from Ireland.

You've given me so much to go on .. Thankyou
I've just been doing this for just over a week and am using up credits all over the place on ancestry and www.1901census .co.uk and another one ..find family? But should have signed up to something a bit more permanently. On both patenal sides I've got lots of irish ancestors aswell as welsh and scottish .. a few of them on both sides of family visited India or were born there . What would you recomend as the best site to sign up to?
Many Thanks
Ps I had a look at above re passenger lists hoping to find Margaret but 'ancestrys' only started later like 1890c any ideas of where else to look ? Thought if we find Harry and Catherine with Margaret alongside Mary Ann and other kids on a boat then we've got them !

Fledgling....
Harry is another name for Henry and Kate for Catherine...Your possibly right about the Birth date for Henry (Son of Dennis and Mary) the only thing being... it was very common to tell Census Ennumerator any date of birth...most didnt know any way....my own family added and took away the years as it suited them...

Feel Henry Dowd and Kate Clancy must be Harry and Catherine 1881.

( my great grandmother who was margarets daughter changes her name from catherine to Kate to Katherine ) . I can't help feeling just a little excited but will curtail the shouting x
I know Margaret was RC so that fits and Henry's changed to Harry ? The birth of Henry in 1834 though is prob a bit too early .... but maybe an earlier sibling of his ( who died ?) and they kept the name?
I managed to waste ( or maybe not) about 8 euro the other night finding out there were only two o dowd households in Kerry called O Dowd but without any further details
.. I am really chuffed you're getting all this for me :) Thank you lots

Fledgling...Still having no luck finding Margarets Birth/Baptism in the Co.Kerry but have found Henry's..born 2.June 1872 to Henry Dowd and Kate Clancy.

Fledgling...Dont get too excited...the possibility is there but you will need definative evidence...eg MC of Maggie before you can really start "shouting" That being said I have looked at some Co. Kerry records and can only find so far.....the following...

A Birth of a Mary Dowd 28 Nov.1859 CastleIsland Co.Kerry to Henry Dowd and Catherine Clancy
The Birth of a Henry Dowd 3 July 1834 to Dennis Dowd and Mary Sullivan
Castleisland Co.Kerry....

The surname would be O'Dowd but the "O" tends disappear on transcription as with the vast majority of "O"Surnames
The Christian name Henry was not a common one so it may be worthwhile keeping this aside until later...The family are RC.

WOW Thats ace ... thank you so much . I just persumed that I'd have to try and find her in Ireland to look for siblings. Looking at the dates they must have come to London after 1861 but beforeJohannah was born 1866 and then popped back to Ireland around 1870 after Dominacs birth but before having Henry in Ireland 1872. I'm going to try and look at passenger records and see if I have any luck finding them with Margaret (Maggie) .
I am so pleased you've found this for me ... I looked at an irish site which didn't give names but identified that there were only two o Dowd families in County Kerry and you've found one living 5 mins away - it must be them x

Fledgling....As a point of interest Lofting Rd Islington and Elliots Place (1881 Census) still exist and are about 5-10mins walk from one and other.

Fledgling.....The only O'Dowds from the Co.Kerry Listed 1881 Census...

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Harry O'DOWD Head M Male 41 Kerry Co, Ireland Blacksmith Tarrier
Catherine O'DOWD Mother M Female 38 Kerry Co, Ireland
Mary Ann O DOWD Daur M Female 21 Kerry Co, Ireland Servant
Johannah O'DOWD Daur U Female 15 Holborn, Middlesex, England
Catherine O'DOWD Daur Female 13 Islington, Middlesex, England
Dominac O'DOWD Son Male 11 Islington, Middlesex, England
Henry O'DOWD Son Male 9 Kerry, Ireland


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Source Information:
Dwelling 5 Elliotts Place
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341059
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0272 / 79
Page Number 31


Note the gap in age between Mary Ann and Johanna...possibly Maggie is in there..