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1841 Wales Census
about Margaret Jones
Name: Margaret Jones
Age: 5 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Gender: Female
Where born: Carmarthenshire, Wales

Civil parish: Llanllawddog
Hundred: Elvet
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales

Street Address>>>>>>>>Derlwyn
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Carmarthen
Sub-registration district: Conwil
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Name
David Jones 30
Elizabeth Jones 30
Mary Jones 5
Elizabeth Jones 3
David Jones 2
Margaret Jones 5 Mo

Back to my day job then,,too slow for this one.

Another interesting piece of Welsh info..bronwYn is the masculine and BronwEn is the female.

But over the years the spellings seemed to have slipped together and not been recognised outside Wales as being different.

Hello, and thanks for this info. I'll try and answer your questions.

John Jones married Mary Williams, when they both died there was David Jones, John and CAtherine Jones left in Wales. Thomas who married Elizabeth went to the USa. And the others came to Australia.

Don't know what happened here, 1843. I know that in 1899 one of the sisters received a letter from John Jones her brother stating that his brother David was living with him and John's wife in Neath. That's all.

Vivienne - the info on John Jones marrying Mary Williams was from Marriage index Abergwili on m/fiche - film 105125 Abergwili Bts. Not sure if John was from the Parish of St Peters. Mary was from the Abergwili Parish, not sure if they were conformist....

I know that David Jones the son had a Grandson that worked at a shop at Attwallis, which is near Derlwyn College.

I can't get into Ancestory.com as it won't let me unless I pay which I don't have a credit card.

Just tried http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=8059 but I couldn't get anything for David Lewis Jones b. 11 Jul 1813 Llanllawaddog, maybe you might get a better result, I find it very frustrating.

I can't locate any Parish Records, I must be blind or the Welsh part of me likes playing jokes.

Bron

I'm thinking that David Lewis Jones who married Elizabeth is the son of David Jones 11/07/1813 brother to John Jones. So it's these brother's father John Jones, I'm after any info on.

Hope that makes more sense you reading than me writing it.

Bron

"I'm thinking that David Lewis Jones who married Elizabeth is the son of David Jones 11/07/1813 brother to John Jones. So it's these brother's father John Jones, I'm after any info on."

That's what I was getting at all along -- when I said:

- So what I'm getting at, I guess, is: was David Jones (born early 1800s, father of David Lewis Jones) a brother of your John Jones? Or was John Jones's father an ag lab on the farm ...
- If they were brothers, might it indicate that their father John's father's name was David? If David were the first-born son and named for the father's father ...
- Wait, your John was born 1788. Might David have been a son?


My problem was that your John was born 1788, so a David born 1808-1811ish (per 41-51 censuses -- 1808 from the 1851 would likely be more accurate) would be a little young to be a brother, and might he have been your John's eldest son David, whom you have as born 1813. I don't know what else you know about that son David. And I'm not quite clear on whether you know your John had a brother David; I think we're both just surmising. ;)


For searching Ancestry 1881, try just going to Home

http://www.ancestry.co.uk

and selecting the 1881 census over on the right side. After you've done a certain number of searches it will ask you to register as a free user, but you don't need a credit card for that.

"I couldn't get anything for David Lewis Jones b. 11 Jul 1813 Llanllawaddog"

David Lewis Jones was the son, born c1840. The father born c1808 in the censuses is just called David Jones in censuses.

Was your David 1813 called David Lewis Jones?

For the David Jones (with son David Lewis Jones) who had wife Elizabeth in 1841/51, this is the best match in 1881:


David Jones 69
- born: Llanfl AR Arth, Carmarthenshire, Wales
- occupation: farmer of 220 acres
Rachel Jones 69 - new wife?
David Jones 41 = David Lewis Jones c1840?
Elizabeth Jones 36
- says "farmer's daughter", but says married; could be DL Jr's wife
Anne Jones 32 - daughter, unmarried
Rachel Jones 5 - granddaughter
Anne Jones 2 - granddaughter
Evan Williams 17
Mary Williams 15

address - Caerngwynion, Llanfihangel ar Arth, Carmarthenshire


But ... there are also:

David Jones 68
- born Llanhingelararth, Carmarthenshire
- occupation: farmer of 28 Acres
Catherine Jones 68

address: Llainwen Rd, Abergwilly, Carmarthenshire


Here's David Lewis Jones, son of David c1808ish, in 1881 ... oh, duh.
Address is "Derlwyn", Llanllawddog, Carmarthenshire.

David Lewis Jones 41
- Occupation: Farmer Of 160 Acres
- born: Llanfihangelararth, Carmarthenshire
Elizabeth Jones 31
Elizabeth Jones 5
Hannah Jones 4
Mary Jones 2
John Jones 23
David James 14
Hannah Bowen 21
Mary Enoch 16
Martha Ellen Salmon 13


I suppose there's some reason why I seem to have missed them when I did that "Derlwyn" address search in 1881 ...

Your John's son David 1813 isn't in John's household in 1841:

John Jones 55 - Ag Lab
Mary Jones 50
Lewis Jones 20
Evan Jones 12
Mary Jones 9
Anne Jones 6
Sarah Jones 3

So could David c1808 father of David Lewis Jones be him?


I really think you need to organize Ancestry access so you can do the searching -- tracing possibles through the censuses and ruling out, etc., if you want to find descendants.

Hello Bronwyn,

I've just read these posts with great interest!

My ancestor, (David) Benjamin Jones is shown in the 1851 census at Rhymney, Bedwelty, Mon. as having been born in Llanllawddog, Carms. I don't have his date of birth but his wife born 1814 (in Kidwelly) was said to be 3 years older than he was, making his dob c1817.

Recent immigration records from Sydney, NSW show his parents as DAVID and ANN JONES living in Abergwili in 1856. Benjamin and his wife Jane and children. Ann, Daniel and Hannah emigrated in 1856 from Rhymney, where he worked in the iron industry.

On Benjamin's marriage to Jane Rees in 1837 the witnesses were JOHN JONES and David Rees but this took place at Llanbadarn fawr, Cardiganshire. So far, I have not found any siblings for Benjamin (as he was known to his descendants).



I, too am having difficulty in researching my Jones ancestor - can anyone see any likely connection between these families, please. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Reece

Reece, I was going to take a look, but I can't reproduce your resuts.

Hmm. Seems to be them in 1851.

Name: Benjamin Jones
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane
Where born: Llanddarog, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Name: Jane Jones
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Benjamin
Where born: Lydney, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Bedwellty
County/Island: Monmouthshire

Benjamin Jones 35
Jane Jones 36
Ann Jones 10
Daniel Jones 8
Hannah Jones 1

? Dunno, doesn't really match what you said, and I can't find anything that does.
- edit - nope, that's them, kids' names match.

1841, for info:

Benjamin Jones 20
Jane Jones 25
Ann Jones 1
Civil parish: Bedwelty

ELIZABETH LEWIS Pedigree
Female Family
Marriages:
Spouse: DAVID JONES Family
Marriage: 14 DEC 1810 Abergwili, Carmarthen, Wales

Source Information:
Batch Number: 6930034

Have you found this already?

Janey
I checked the 1851 image for Reece a while back and it is NOT llanddarog as transcribed but,,Llanllawddog,,,on image , for where Benjamin was born.
I will eat my hat, scarf and gloves too if I am wrong on it,but I say it is Llanllawddog.

Viv - I was lazy and just figured that might be the case w/o checking. ;)

Maybe we should have Reece's thread so we're not wasting you know what ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1148072

Nothing there though - ?


Ladykira -- why do we want that marriage, now? ;)

Could be the parents of the David father of David Lewis Jones? - 1841:

David Jones** 30 - occupation farmer
Elizabeth Jones 30
Mary Jones 5
Elizabeth Jones 3
David Jones 2
Margaret Jones 5 Mo

** his parents could have been David Jones and Elizabeth Lewis married 1810? ... but there are so many ... Remember too, that's a submitted record.
... and the person who married in 1810 could have been a brother of our John ...

Janey,

Yes, you have the right family but I have a record of Jane Rees's birth in Kidwelly and Viv recently had a look at that Llandarog (?) on the census for 1851 and it looks like Llanllawddog, when it is enhanced, which fits in with Abergwili, I think.

I have had a paid researcher look at Llanddarog for either a David or a Benjamin Jones and they could not find anything in the records to match and also looked in neighbouring parishes over a wide time span.

The Carmarthenshire FHS site looks odd - they only seem to allow you to join at the beginning of the year i.e. Jan to Dec. Also have the year up as 2008 so I will investigate more tomorrow - getting rather tired now.

Very many thanks for your kind help.

Regards,
Reece

Edit - thanks Janey and Viv - sorry I should have posted the thread for you.

My look into it wouldnt be on your thread anyway as it was on Susans thread that I did it for you.
No worries Reece.

Back to Brons for now ladies.
Over to Reeces another day.

Bron - get yourself some new email accounts at www.gmail.com

You should be able to get another 14 days with a different email address. ;)

Hello

John Jones had on his headstone that he was 58 when he died d.1843

In Memory of John Jones of this Parish Presently and Glynadda, died May 14, 1843 being 58 years old. So he was born 1785 not 1788 like I thought.

And where it says of this Parish presently, they are talking about Congregational Welsh Chapel, Abergwili. They are buried at the Old Chapel, the new Chapel has been built in front of the ruins of the Old Chapel.

I hope this info helps to find or locate anyting on his siblings and/or parents.

Cheers

Bron

Results for: John Jones [refine search] [Print]
Birth/Christening, 1785, Wales
Exact Spelling: Off
Matches: All Sources - 42
Ancestral File
1. John JONES - Ancestral File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 1785 Of Swansea, , Wales

2. John (John Evans) JONES - Ancestral File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 1785 Masybidya Farm, Abergorlech, Llanybyther, Carmarthen, Wales

3. John JONES (LODWICK) - Ancestral File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: Abt 1785 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales

4. John JONES - Ancestral File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: Abt 1785 Of, Fenlan Back, Cardigan, Wales

5. John Edward JONES - Ancestral File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: < 1785 , , , Wales

6. John R JONES - Ancestral File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 27 Aug 1785 , , Wales

Matches: Ancestral File - 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

International Genealogical Index - British Isles
7. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 1785 Wrexham, Denbigh, Wales

8. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 1785 , Brecon, Wales

9. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llansamlet, Glamorgan, Wales

10. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales

11. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAY 1785 Welshpool, Montgomery, Wales

12. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of Llanagwad, , Carmarthen, Wales

13. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Christening: 06 OCT 1785 Denbigh, Denbigh, Wales

14. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llysfaen, Caernarvon, Wales

15. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Christening: 23 JAN 1785 Llandaff, Glamorgan, Wales

16. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 31 JUL 1785 Conway, Caernarvon, Wales

17. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 16 SEP 1785 Machynlleth, Montgomery, Wales

18. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 18 JAN 1785 Machynlleth, Montgomery, Wales

19. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llangunnor, Carmarthen, Wales

20. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llansamlet, Glamorgan, Wales

21. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llansamlet, Glamorgan, Wales

22. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llansamlet, Glamorgan, Wales

23. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llanboidy, Carmarthen, Wales

24. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of Conwil,Elvet, , Carmarthen, Wales

25. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 04 SEP 1785 Leadbrook,Major, , Flint, Wales

26. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of, Llysfaen, Caernarvon, Wales

27. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of Blyth, , Brecon, Wales

28. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Of Aberdene,Glams, , , Wales

29. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: About 1785 Peulan, , Cardigan, Wales

30. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 31 JUL 1785 At, Conway, Caernarvon, Wales

31. Mrs. John Jones - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 1785 Of, Wrexham, Denbigh, Wales

Matches: International Genealogical Index/British Isles - over 25

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pedigree Resource File
32. John (Evans) jones - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 1785 Masybidya Farm, Abergorleh, Llanybyther, Carmarthen,Waless, Wales

33. John Jones - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: abt 1785 ,Cardigan,So. Wales

34. John Jones - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 5 May 1785 Cemmaes,Montgomery,Wales

35. John Jones (Lodwick) - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: abt 1785 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales

36. John Jones - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 5 May 1785 Cemmaes,Montgomery,Wales

37. John Jones - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 6 Feb 1785 Wenallt, Wales

38. John Jones - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 15 Apr 1785 WALES

39. John JONES (LODWICK) - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: abt 1785 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales

40. John Jones - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 5 May 1785 Cemmaes,Montgomery,Wales

41. John Jones (Lodwick) - Pedigree Resource File
Gender: M Birth/Christening: abt 1785 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales

Trying to find a Farm or as stated in my information Manor House called Dyroleum. I've tried to google it and didn't get anything and may need one of your Welsh Experts.

The owners were Mr & Mrs Jones and were married in 1780's and I know before you say anything, that's all the info I have. Sorry.

The son is John Jones, who married Mary nee Williams (and previous noted) who lived at Derlwyn Farm, Abergwili, Carmarthenshire.

The spelling may differ, any help on what the name means or where it's located or if the spelling is wrong, I'll continue to have a search around Abergwili locally.

Thanks
Bron

Go to google maps.

Ask for

"derlwyn farm" wales

It will give you the address. On the map, it apepars to be less than half a mile northwest of where Llanllawddog is marked (which is about 5 miles north of Abergwili).

Why not write to the occupants?


Oh - repeat the process for

"derlwyn college" wales

-- the location on the map is the same.

Hi Jayney,

20 years ago a relation went to Derlwyn Farm and spoke to the owner who said he knew something of the Jones who use to own the farm and that was about it.

I was after more info on Dyroleum Farm/Manor and now looking at the handwriting it could be Dyrolenm, I might try that.

Thanks

Bron

http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/search.publisha
("Advanced Search", Residential Name)

Searched at BT online for Jones on Alltwalis Rd, Alltwalis - the address of Derlwyn Farm/College - and there are two listings.

You never know, they could be descendants still living in family properties.

-- Oh, actually, checking back at google maps, one *is* the college/farm. It seems to be a residential property now - there has been a planning application for extending the college building -- so maybe more likely unrelated.

Can you explain where this new property name came from?

Dyroleum / Dyrolemn

What are you looking at that could be one or the other?

Nobody likes to go on goose chases after something that could be completely unreliable, and it helps to know the source and era of information.