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Sorry Stephen,

On 1861 - Thomas's family (minus Thomas) is living at 3 Brown's Terrace.

Charlotte is living next door at No. 2 with her parents Thomas + Sarah + family.

Dea x

I have been re-reading this.......when was Thomas Gatford living next door to 2 Browns Terrace? I makes sense this is how they met but on 1851 census he is at 11 something road?.........there is also only 1yr age difference between Thomas and John.....maybe thomas and Charlotte got together after Johns death but maybe never married?

I had thought that a possibility too but couldn't find a death for John or a Gatford/Gatford marriage.

I do think you 'may' have the wrong birth for Charlotte but I can't do much till later as little grand-daughter is coming after school - things to 'prepare'.

Will look later though - this is just SO confusing.

Best of luck,

Dea x

well, it does say Bernard Connelly and Charlotte Cannings.....maybe it is the wrong certificate that is in the family records, I notice there is a BR for a charlotte connelly in camberwell the same year - maybe the wrong one was ordered in the past ????The birth was at 5 kirkmans place , st pancras if anyone can tie it in. I'm clutching at straws here!...........I thought John Gatford may have died then she married his brother......but there isnt a Charlotte Gatford marrying Thomas Gatford.........aaaahhhhhh!

I am confused also Stephen - Is that not the right Charlotte living next door to the Gatfords on 1861 with parents Thomas + Sarah?

Going to take a little break and 'clear my head' but will come back to it later.

Dea x

thanks June

mistranscribed on ancestry

1861

Name: Thomas Jatford
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Soldier
Gender: Male
Where born: Croydon, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Scarborough
Town: Scarborough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Scarborough
Sub-registration district: Scarborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 4




image reads Gatford hes unmarried

June x

wooaahhhh! I am confused............we do actually have charlotte connellys BR.....Oct 1841 st pancras - parents Bernard Connelly and Charlotte Cannings......did charlotte marry John and then he died and she married Thomas?.......sorry but I have a really fuzzy brain today!

Wow Choccy - that's the one but I couldn''t find it.

Charlotte + Ann are sisters.

1861:
CARNLEY, Thomas Head Married M 50 1811 General Orater ......... says General Dealer + name is Conneley
Lambeth
Surrey VIEW
CONNELEY, Sarah Wife Married F 54 1807
Wapping
Middlesex VIEW
CONNELEY, Charlotte Daughter Unmarried F 19 1842 House Servant *********
Camberwell
Surrey VIEW
***CONNELEY, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 17 1844 House Servant
Camberwell
Surrey VIEW
CONNELEY, Mary A Daughter F 11 1850
Camberwell
Surrey VIEW
FRY, Mary Lodger Married F 44 1817 Charwoman
Camberwell
Surrey VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG09 Piece:
387 Folio:
19 Page:
36

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
4 St George EnumerationDistrict:
8 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St George

Civil Parish:
Camberwell Municipal Borough:
Address:
!!!!! 2, Browns Terrace, Camberwell County: - next door to Thomas. !!!!
London, Surrey

.............................

Charlotte is not with them on 1871.

CONNOLEY, Thomas Head M 61 1810 Surrey VIEW
CONNOLEY, Sarah Wife F 66 1805 Middlesex VIEW
EASTOP, Hannah Sister-In-Law F 70 1801 Middlesex VIEW
EASTOP, Charles Brother-In-Law M 49 1822 Surrey VIEW
CONNOLEY, Mary A Daughter F 20 1851 Surrey VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
676 Folio:
135 Page:
6

Registration District:
Lambeth Sub District:
Kennington 2nd EnumerationDistrict:
6 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Dea x

EDIT: OOOeeer!! - just when I thought it was solved - just noticed that Charlotte married 'brother John !! .... dratt!

Anyway, they were still sisters!

Dea x

thanks choccy - thats great.........definately a connection....just cant figure it out yet........interesting that charlotte connelly is mentioned......there was talk in the family that was her name but just couldnt tie it in........still cant......anyone help figure it out!

there's some sort of connection here -

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: John Gatford Jr
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Spouse Name: Charlotte Connoley
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Jun 1862
Parish: Saint Mary At Lambeth
County: Middlesex
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: John Gatford
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Connoley



Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Mary At Lambeth, Register of marriages, P85/MRY1, Item 434


Witnesses are R. Gatford and Ann Connelly *************



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Henry Thomas Gatford
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Spouse Name: Catherine Coglin
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Oct 1862
Parish: Emmanuel, Camberwell
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Gatford
Spouse Father Name: John Coglin



Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Emmanuel, Camberwell, Register of marriages, P73/EMM, Item 011


Witnesses are R. Gatford and Ann Connelly ****************

searched via find my past. had a look at the image and it just lists names with the address as 'barracks'. was trying to find a regiment - no luck. you could try to google to see who were based there in1861. when you find the reg you can then see if the records are at Kew.

I have checked and they are definately brothers.........barbara, where can I find the army information you sent me? The henry thomas Gatford + Catherine Coglin original record is on ancestry - so all ties in

you could check if same father/occupation

Marriages Dec 1862
Gatford Henry Thomas Camberwell 1d 777
Coglin Catherine or COOK Eliza

hi barbara, where did you find that information, I cannot seem to find it! .....sorry you thought I would be getting better at this!

Hi Dea, yes I saw that, I am sure that Henry Thomas Gatford was indeed Thomas Henry Gatfords brother as the professions and father tie in.......just cannot find him or a marriage to charlotte on 1861 + 1871

Stephen,

There is a marriage of a Henry Thomas Gatford on 5th October 1862 to Catherine Coglin.

Is this Thomas Henry's younger brother?

His address and father's details match with what you have.

Dea x

1861 census transcription details for: Scarborough
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09 Piece: 3616 Folio: 26 Page: 45

Reg. District: Scarborough Sub District: 2 Scarborough
Parish: Scarborough Enum. District: 1
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Scarborough
Address: Scarborough
County: Yorkshire (North Riding)
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
GATFORD, Thomas Soldier Unmarried M 23 1838 Private Soldier Army
Croydon
Surrey

sorry all wrong deleted post

Births Mar 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gatford Thomas Arthur Lambeth 1d 515



if you get this birth cert it will give you mothers maiden name to find marriage


June x