Find Ancestors

Thanks for clarifying things Janey. The info on the Mormon site and the Sparks tree on Ancestry and GR is identical - all have the same marriage date error and have omitted the first child . Sorry to be a pain but I was hoping someone would find something new!

point taken Janey

Ann X

Here, I'll butt in -- Ann o' GG, that info from the Mormon site is just what some Mormon or other, or some other random person, has submitted there. It isn't backed up by anything. And in this case, it is clearly taken straight from the 1901 census record. So it's actually the same thing as the 1901 census record, not supporting evidence for the 1901 census record.

It's like if you say: I didn't take those cookies! Look here in my diary, it says right there I didn't take those cookies!

(The Sparks tree question was aimed at Katie I think.)

Many of the records supplied by the LDS (Mormons) are submitted by other people or taken directly from census records. Their information is helpful but not always accurate. I know this from personal experience of searching for people who were incorrectly recorded by their site. Census records are also often inaccurate due to being written by a census taker who may have misheard/mis-spelt things

well I have no knowledge of the Sparks tree and did not get the information I posted from there

Effie is missing from the 1891 census.
The Sparks tree: I was contacted by someone who said they were a relation and could they see my tree. Naively I did this ( years ago ) and have found my info copied onto the Sparks family tree on various sites. Alot more records have become available since and I have added and amended things but the other tree has not been updated. If people access this and take it at face value they will get incorrect information. I guess this is a common problem so everything I get from others now I try and double check to make sure it is correct ( in my eyes anyway). I'm sure lots of us have encountered similar!

I don't think Moses and his wife ever went to India either but I do think that Effie was born in India.

I am not convinced though that Effie was the daughter of Moses and his wife. I think that it looks more like she was an adopted daughter? I am wondering if she reverted to a different surname and that is why no obvious marriage or death has been found for her.


EDIT

Katie, can you tell us more of the Sparks family tree please? Who is missing from the 1891 census please?

what I posted came off the Mormon LDS site

why are you finding it so hard to believe?

HI Ann of GG,
Did the pedigree entry for Effie come from Sparks family tree? He copied mine some time ago!
She is missing off the 1891 census, hardly in India on her own!

The record Ann found would be transcribed from the same census record (1901) by the LDS

The census record states quite clearly that Effie was born in India and that ties in with the record that Anne found. But it also states clearly that Moses was her father! I think that brings us back to the possibility of Effie actually being a niece of Moses. I wonder it she could have returned to India - unlikely though it she had found employment up north.


Dea

I think you are correct and we can rule out that marriage of Effie L. Skinner

well according to what I found Effie was born in India!!!!

Just got back from work and had dinner.
Moses son of the same name died as an infant.
The 1901 job title of Financier is a rather posh way of stating that he was a money lender, it was this that led to the 1904 court case where he was declared bankrupt.
I think I have double checked all the possible Effie Skinner marriages and found them on earlier censuses.
I don't think the family ever went to India, Moses was churchwarden in Gillingham and, until his court appearance, is mentioned in the parish records weekly as counting the money for them!
He was also cited in a divorce case shortly after the death of his wife but I don't think Effie had anything to do with that.

Effie Louise Skinner seems to be the daughter of John + Harriet. who does not appear to fit with the one we are following?

Dea x

I wonder if this is a possibility??

1911

HOUSEHOLD SABINE EFFIE L F 1884 27 Rugby Warwickshire

living with

HOUSEHOLD SABINE MAURICE H M 1884 27 Rugby Warwickshire


Marriage

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SABINE Maurice Herbert Thanet 2a 2159
SKINNER Effie Louise Thanet 2a 2159

Thank you Dea.

That looks like the father Moses. I think for some reason to has put his age as 45 and birth year as 1866 instead of age 66 birth year 1845!

Doesn't help with Effie though. I am wondering if she could have been a daughter of one of the brother's of Moses. The fact that she has the surname Skinner and Moses and his wife don't seem to have a son and their daughters were to young to be the mother of Effie.

This is the detail for the one I had on 1911:

1911 census - household transcription
Person: SKINNER, Moses Trayton
Address: 433 Guinness Buildings P W Bermondsey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SKINNER, Moses Trayton Head Widower M 45 1866 Pensioned Ship Wright From H M Dockyard At Chatham Chatham Kent VIEW
GATES, Clara Housekeeper Deserted F 40 1871 Maidstone Kent VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1883 Reference:
RG14PN1883 RG78PN67 RD24 SD2 ED16 SN421

Registration District:
St Olave (Bermondsey) Sub District:
Bermondsey EnumerationDistrict:
16 Parish:
Bermondsey

Address:
433 Guinness Buildings P W Bermondsey County:
London

Dea x

I think this is the 1911 entry for your Moses.

HOUSEHOLD SKINNER MOSES TRAYTON M 1866 45 St Olave (Bermondsey) London

If you look on freebmd there is only one birth for Moses Trayton Skinner and that's your one

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1844 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skinner Moses Trayton Medway 5 340


So, have you looked at that 1911 census record to see who is living with him?

i think it is him - the same one that Dea thought might have been a son of your Moses.

1891 Census - for Ref.

Name: Mores L Skinner
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: May A
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Gillingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magalene
Town: Gillingham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mores L Skinner 46 Commission Agent
May A Skinner 47
Florence Skinner 19
Ada Skinner 16
Louisa F Hilburn 15 Niece

1871 England Census
about Moses T Skinner
Name: Moses T Skinner
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Household schedule number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Moses T Skinner 26 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shipwright
Mary A Skinner 27
Mary F Barnaby 73