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Also got the death cert of Peter Holland, informant brother, Thomas Holland, early April 1881, so they were definitely in Church Coppenhall.
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Good to hear the news
Thank you for letting us know.
everything comes to those who sit and wait!!
................................. or dig and dig and dig
sylvia
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Well I spent the £7 on the death cert in Hayfield and it is him!
Everything ties up.Blacksmith, age, died where his daughter was living, informant his son in law which I know to be true. Never give up!
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Sorry to ask again.
So do people think that Thomas Holland and his wife Jane appear on two censuses and are the same couple? Both the one in Wybunbury and the one in Bollington have Jane as born in Mansfield, Nottingham.
I suppose I should get the death cert of Peter Holland in the hope that the informant was Thomas.
Now onto deaths. Jane Holland died in 1888 in Bollington. I have ordered the certificate but the registrars (wonderful people!) have already told me that her husand was Thomas, a Blacksmith. But it says she was a widow at death. So Thomas died between the census of 1881 and the death of Jane in December 1888. I have found all the likely deaths and spent money on them all. Not him.
So how about this for a theory. Thomas has two children who land in nearby Rainow in 1881. Both married. In 1891 they are both in Glossop, Derbyshire, daughter Ann seems to be living there with husband, son William is visiting them. The registration district for Glossop at that time is Hayfield. There is a death of a Thomas Holland age 73 in Hayfield in 1889. I can find no Thomas living in Glossop area in 1881 to fit this man. So is it possible that my Thomas went to Glossop to be with his two children, and died there? His death in 1889 would mean that his wife in 1888 was not a widow - but perhaps her family did not know that.
I know it is all supposition, but do I spend another £7 on the death cert in Hayfield in 1889, only to find it isn't him?
Please try and advise.
Margaret
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Yes Ellie, this is what I have. Jane is born Mansfield, Nottingham.
Here is the pair in Bollington:
1881 England Census
about Thomas Holland
Name: Thomas Holland
Age: 64
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Coppenhall, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Bollington
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: Water Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Blacksmith
Registration district: Macclesfield
Sub-registration district: Bollington
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Holland 64
Jane Holland 54
Elizabeth A. Holland 19
Charlotte Holland 15
Jane Holland 13
Jane is born Mansfield, Nottingham.
A witness on the marriage of Thomas in 1838 is a Peter Holland but I can't find his baptism to confirm that.
I've also just realised that Peter appears to die, June quarter 1881, perhaps why Thomas was visiting.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THOMAS HOLLAND Pedigree
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 24 DEC 1814
Christening: 22 JAN 1815 Independent Or Congregational, Northwich, Cheshire, England
Death:
Burial:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM HOLLAND Family
Mother: MARY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C076761 1800 - 1837 0020049 (RG4 2094A) Film 6906824 Film
Sheet: 00
Street Address: Coal Pit Lane
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Blacksmith
Registration district: Nantwich
Sub-registration district: Wybunbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Holland 78
Thomas Holland 65
Jane Holland 53
View
Original
Record
View original image
View blank form
Save This Record
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mgnv, I am guessing she is the Jane that he is "married" to in 1881. Her children are listed then with surname Holland, but in 1891 they are called Atkinson again and living with an aunt. I think Jane died in 1888, I have just sent for the certificate. Unfortunately the Thomas who dies in 1890 isn't mine. Nor are any of the others around that time.
I am fast coming to the conclusion that the Thomas and Jane in Church Coppenhall in 1881 has to be the same Thomas and Jane as in Bollington, so from what people have said on this and other threads, it's possible that Jane's daughters listed them on the census even though they weren't there. I can't see that anything else fits.
The problem with Thomas is that he moved around so much, and it seems he lopped a few years of his age when he met Jane. I'm also trying to guess why he was in Bollington in 1871, but I've just read that the railway was built around that time and all his addresses seem to be connected with railways.
Basically I'm trying to convince myself that this is my Thomas, in an attempt to discover his death.
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Sorry, I can't see 1871 census details - but are Jane Atkinson and her kids with ref rg10/3669/70/?? of any relevance?
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Margaret
It is not unknown for someone to appear twice on the same census in two different places.
Sometimes it's because they are away from home, and "home" person puts them down 'cos they were expected home.
I was read something on here about someone finding a relative down twice .... turned out the house front door and back door were in two different districts, and they were enumerated at both!
Not sure if that answers your problem though!
sylvia
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Are you all ignoring me?
Margaret
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This is a very important family to me. I am trying to get it right.
Thomas Holland born 1814, Coppenhall, Cheshire. Son of William Holland, farmer and Mary Downs. I have the marriage cert of Thomas 22 Jan 1838 to Sarah Gregory, his father William, farmer, her father Ralph, farmer, married at Coppenhall, Nantwich, Cheshire.
The family moves around a lot, but I have it all.
In 1841 they are living at Tatton with Mary 5 (who I believe is Sarah's illegitimate daughter), Thomas 2 and George 1. Next door (or perhaps same house) are parents William and Mary.
In 1851 they are in Sandbach with children Mary, Thomas, George, Sarah, Ann and Emma. Ann is born Uppermills, Yorkshire, basically Saddleworth Moor.
In 1861 they are at Constitution Hill, Brieryhurst, Kidsgrove, with Thomas Jnr married to Winifor and child Emily, Emma and William 3 - he is my man. Thomas, Winifor and Emily are never heard of again.
No idea what happened to George. Several theories about Mary. No idea what happened to Emma.
William is born in Earlstown, Lancashire, in 1858, I have the birth cert. There is a big mystery surrounding this family and Earlstown if anyone is interested in helping. Not here, another story.
In 1871, Sarah (mother) and William are in Gorton, Manchester (mistranscribed as Hallam, I have told Ancestry at least 5 times), next door is Ann Hancock, who is William's sister Ann age 23, married to Eli Hancock who is in Manchester Infirmary and dying. The son John age 11 that they have is a total mystery as to where he came from or where he went. Next door but one is Sarah Ogden, who is Sarah Holland married to Edwin Ogden, plus some children.
During 1871, Eli Hancock dies in the infirmary, and Sarah Holland dies too, in Gorton. I have the death cert.
Problem number 1. Where is father Thomas Holland in 1871?
Guess, Adlington Road, Bollington, Cheshire, age 50, lodging with Rachel Smith, perhaps en-route from Coppenhall to Gorton, and didn't make it in time for his wife and son-in-laws deaths.
What happened to the Hollands after 1871?
Sarah Ogden, nee Holland, went to Newton Le Willows (basically Earlstown) with hubby and family.
Ann Hancock married Joseph Wadsworth of Rainow, and went there, minus son John. Strange that they also had children born in Earlstown, and Joseph ended up there as a widower.
William must have gone with Ann to Rainow, cos he married Martha Oldfield there in 1876 (I have the marriage cert), and I know all about him after that.
Problem Number 2. What happened to father Thomas Holland after his wife died in 1871? I assume he landed in Bollington in 1871. His daughter and son landed a few miles away in Rainow. Why? Because dad was there? Did he remarry and stay in Bollington?
1881. Thomas Holland, blacksmith, born Coppenhall, is at Water Street, Bollington, with wife Jane and 3 daughters. Jane is born Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.
BUT in 1881 a Thomas Holland, born Church Coppenhall, with a wife Jane, born Mansfield Nottinghamshire is living in.... Church Coppenhall, Nantwich, with brother Peter, a farmer.
Is it the same Thomas and Jane on two census records? Was someone telling porkies?
Peter Holland is a farmer in 1861 too, at Coppenhall Farm, and in 1851. Is he Thomas's brother?
I've never found a death for Thomas Holland b 1814.
I have Thomas's baptism on IGI, but nothing for Peter. There is also a possible Stephen Holland, Pig Dealer who might be related.
But for the moment, I am asking, does it seem likely that Thomas Holland b 1814 was on the 1881 census in two places, and is it the same man?
Margaret
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