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Hi Ozi,
Can't thank you enough for all the work youve done. You must be so organised cos the info youve given me would have taken me weeks to get together!! I am particularly interested in the fact that you discounted Griffith B(Benjamin). I was thinking that this person may have been him - I would never have thought of checking him out at a later date as you have done, so I have learnt an important lesson here which I am sure will help me in future searches. However, I am still stuck on this one. Surely there must be an answer! If not, I would once again thank you for the work.
cheers,
Ken.
PS To everybody, I would like to say that because of the nature of my job there will usually be delays in my replies but this doesnt mean I dont value each and every response.

I'm not sure what you mean by 3 High Streets. There is only one High Street in Ystradyfodwg in 1881 & 1891. However it is covered by more than one enumerator. There is still only one number 45.

On findmypast if you search by High Street & Ystradyfodwg you will get one long list. If you search by High Street & Treorchy you get nothing. This is for both 1881 & 1891.

Ozi

I've also been doing a bit of delving myself. I've been looking for all the Griffith Evans registered in the time frame we have from 1901 & 1911. Here's the results so far. I'm still working on the Festiniog lot.

The brackets infer that any of those parents could belong to any of the registered boys.

Births Jun 1878 - Mar 1879

Evans Griffith Carnarvon 11b 440 - parents are Griffith (miller & farmer) & Ellen; OR Moses (labourer) & Catherine.
Evans Griffith Corwen 11b 423 } - parents are William (farmer) & Margaret
Evans Griffith Corwen 11b 428 } - mother is Susan (though 68 so must be grandmother); living in Lancashire in 1901.
Evans Griffith Dolgelly 11b 379 - Jonathan (stone mason) & Janet
Evans Griffith Festiniog 11b 472 } - John (Gen Labourer) & Elizabeth
Evans Griffith Festiniog 11b 458 } -
Evans Griffith Festiniog 11b 426 } -
Evans Griffith Liverpool 8b 106 - John G (Porter) & Jane; living with his step-father in 1901
Evans Griffith Machynlleth 11b 186 - Evan (Quarry Labourer Slate) & Jane
Evans Griffith Merthyr Tydfil 11a 458 - Evan (Underground Fireman) & Catherine; coal miner in 1901
Evans Griffith Pontardawe 11a 634 - John (iron stone miner) & Gwen
Evans Griffith Etheridge Festiniog 11b 477 - William (Coal Miner) & Mary; or Ellis (mariner) & Gwen
Evans Griffith Lewis Dolgelly 11b 433 - Hugh (Farmer Of 15 Acres) & Elizabeth; ag lab in 1901

Festiniog is tricky. It spans the counties of Caernarvonshire and Merionethshire. Griffith, son of Ellis & Gwen, is born Caernarvonshire in Penmorfa, district of Festiniog. In 1891 he is recorded as Griffith E. Evans.


Not sure where these were registered, in 1881 recorded as born & living in the district stated.
Evans Griffith Pwllheli - Thomas (ag lab) & Mary
Evans Griffith Pwllheli - Griffith (miller & farmer) & Mary
Evans Griffith Carmarthen - William (coal miner) & Eliza; still living in Llanarthney in 1901
Evans Griffith Pugh Calcutta, India/Aberystwith - mother is Emilia Savi Evans; undergraduate at the University of Oxford in 1901


REMEMBER!!!!!! This is all unsubstantiated. There seems to be more Griffith Evans in the censuses than are registered for that time frame.

I also think this is the family in 1871 with Sarah mistranscribed. There is no Hannah Ann registered at Merthyr in the time frame but several Sarah Anns.

The deciding factor is that wife, Ann, is from Cardiganshire as she is in 1881 & 1891. Children all born in Merthyr.

1871 Wales Census
Name: Ann Evans
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Cardiganshire, Wales
Civil parish: Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish: Dowlais
Town: Dowlais
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 68
Household Members:
Name Age
John Evans 38 - coal miner
Ann Evans 29
David Evans 4
Margaret Evans 2
Hannah A Evans 9 months

I'd checked Griffith Benjamin out and discarded him as this is him in 1901.

1901 Wales Census
Name: Griffith Benj Evans
Age in 1901: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: Ystradyfodwg St John
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 115 High St
Condition as to marriage: single
Occupation: Coal hewer
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 88
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Salathiel 58 - shopkeeper - green grocer
David Evans 33 - coal hewer
Griffith Benj Evans 26


In 1891 he is a Door Boy in the mines [how horrible] and is living at 166 High Street

you might find this site interesting
http://www.anglesey.info/Family_History_in_the_Rhondda_Valleys.htm

Hi and thanks to all again.
Cherilyn, thanks for all your help and although I had seen this
family before I did not realise they lived at 45 High Street. Seems amazing coincidence.
The fact that it is Griffith B put me off originally. I will send for birth
cert. Also I forgot that Phyllis would be Lewis and not Evans as they
did not marry until two years after her birth!
Hi Barbara thanks for the interest- Griffith was indeed my grandfather.
His son Ivor was my father.
Hello Ozibird, I think you might be right! One problem I get is that there
Are 3 High Streets listed in Ystradyfodwg and there is no way to tell which is
which. On the marriage cert it is 45 high st, treorchy . I use findmypast to check addresses – any advice on this:-)

soo...have you tried ordering any birth certificates? or just looked in the IGI?

Births Jun 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evans Griffith Merthyr Tydfil 11a 458

I think the one in the above 1881 census is this one:

Births Jun 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVANS Griffith Benjamin Pontypridd 11a 423

Generally, if Griffith's father was deceased at the time of his marriage, it would say 'decd' in brackets after the father's name (tho it may still state his occupation).

You can submit a certificate request with the GRO with specific parameters, ie father's name William. If they look it up and that is not the case, they will charge you a reduced fee. You don't get the cert but at least you are not paying full price for a cert you don't need!

Could be a coincidence, but this Evans family were at 45 High St in 1881 with son Griffth born around the right time.

However, his mum is shown as a widower.

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation
Ann EVANS Head W Female 38 Llangoedmor, Cardigan, Wales
David EVANS Son Male 13 Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales Coal Miner
Margaret EVANS Daur Female 11 Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Sarah Ann EVANS Daur Female 10 Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Griffith B. EVANS Son Male 3 Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 45 High Street
Census Place Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342275
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5301 / 107
Page Number 12

For reference:

Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evans Griffith Pontypridd 11a 983
Lewis Florence Pontypridd 11a 983

Ah this looks like Phyllis' birth:

Births Mar 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEWIS Phyllis May Pontypridd 11a 555

Hi Ken

Which of Griffith and Florences Children is your grandparent ? And have you got your Grandparents Marriage certificate to comfirm that Griffith was the father of the Bride/groom ?

All the best
Barbara

I think you're jumping the gun with connecting William Evans in the 1901 to your Griffith Evans.

Evans has to be about the most popular surname in that part of Wales. William Evans may not be related at all. Or he might be a cousin, elder brother, etc.

Also, who wasn't a collier in south Wales at that time, especially in the Pontypridd district?

OK, OK, so your Griffith was a hairdresser, but you know what I mean. :-)

Ozi

Info is put on here by ...cut and paste..I will instruct on how to do it sometime tomorrow if you dont know how ,thats if you wish to know,too tired now.

Info found fast sometimes,others not,you have a more unusual name in Phyllis may ,so I looked for her,even though you gave no birth year for her...
I will look into your problem tomorrow,as I am sure will others on here too.


There is one pretty good rule to go by on this site though if you do want help as much as we all can give...
Please do not start another thread on this subject as info is all here to work with.

Must away to my bed .

viv

Also how do you get it on the screen as it looks like youve not typed it in!
I getting more confused by second. Getting hang of these replies though! More fun than searching for family tree!

How do you get this info so fast?!
I'm amazed.
Takes me hours.
Ken

Wow, you really have a way with words and a fantastic imagination!!
I may just give up on this one and make up my own story.
Seriously, William was not down as deceased and also as I said there was a William living at 45 High Street less that one year after the marriage of Griffith, at which he gave 45 High street as his address.
If only I could get a name for my great grandmother, i think i might be happy to stop there.
Ken.

1911 for ref...

EVANS, Griffith Head Married M 32 1879 Hairdresser Glam
EVANS, Florence Wife Married
11 years F 31 1880 Glamorgan
EVANS, Phyllis May Daughter Single F 13 1898 Glamorgan
EVANS, Violet Maud Daughter Single F 10 1901 Glamorgan
EVANS, Evan William Son Single M 5 1906 Glamorgan
EVANS, Arthur Gwyn Son Single M 3 1908 Glamorgan


****************************************************

1901 Wales Census
about Griffith Evans
Name: Griffith Evans
Age in 1901: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Florence
Gender: Male
Where born: N

Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: Llantrisant
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

From the freedictionary online.

A deserted or abandoned child of unknown parentage

********************************************************************
My understanding of it,plus..
A foundling is normally a child that was left on workhouse / church steps ,or handed in as mother was normally unmarried,disgraced and unable to support a child.

The father would of course carry no stigma as he was only seen to be "sowing wild oats"! and after having talked the poor lass into it would then up and leave to marry a nice respectable "virginal"lady.
Or of course the mother could have been a servant and expected to do extra duties for the master and or masters son ,then be thrown out on her ear with no reference when seen to have become a "fallen "woman.

That of course is only a few senarios....


Many people back then made up fathers and their occupations to put on their marriage certs,often with father listed as "deceased"so no one could question things, to be seen as respectable,ilegitimacy of course carried a shamefulness with it.


But all this about your man is of course all wild theory at the moment..

viv

Hi Everybody!
Many thanks for all your replies – I did not expect it, especially as I am new to this! THANK YOU ALL.
Any way, Griffith Evans is my great grandfather, not grandfather as I said. I have him living in no. 18 Dinas Road, Ystradyfodwg in 1911. I know it is my great grandfather because he is married to Florence, whose name I knew and also his daughter is Phyllis May who I remember. His place of birth is unknown which I thought was a little strange.
I next found him on the 1901 census married to Florence and living with his in laws at no. 67 Dinas Road, Ystradyfodwg. His in laws were Lewis’s.
Next step was to find his marriage certificate so I could find his father’s name. I struggled to find the certificate as it transpired that they were married two years after the birth of their first child, Phyllis, who was born in 1898. This must have been somewhat unusual for the time.
They were married in 1900. On the marriage cert it said his father’s name was William. The address on the marriage cert for Griffith was 45 High Street, Ystradyfodwg. I searched for this address on the 1901 census(which was about 11 months later) and there were three High streets. On the third one I found a William Evans who was a boarder there! Too much of a coincidence I thought but William was only 37 which would have made him 36 when Griffith got married. So was he Griffiths father? Would have been very young, 15 or possibly 16! This William was down as being born in Merthyr around 1864. My problem is I cannot find a Griffith in the area with a father called William.
All sorts of ideas have been going around my head. Was Griffith brought up by his grandparents and he thought William was his brother? If so, when did he realise that William was his father. Why can’t I find a birth certificate for him in the Merthyr or Ystradyfodwg areas? Perhaps he was not registered? How can I ever find out who his mother was and also his siblings?
I’m really, really stuck. Can I approach this from another angle?
All or any help will be more than graciously accepted!!!
If you think you can help please let me know.
Many thanks,
Ken.
Ps I forgot to say that he said his father, William, was a collier. This is the trade of the William who lived at 45 High Street one year after his marriage.
Can you tell me what a foundling is?

Normally when it states on census that place of birth is unknown it means they were a foundling,and if a father is given on the marriage cert then he has been made up for respectability,and he is normally recorded as deceased.

But in this case until a reply is given from the poster then it is all "up int air"