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If you mean Eric born 1888 I wouldnt have thought he would still be alive,120 years oldish?

But Eric junior born 1923 was on passenger lists,I just havent been able to locate Eric Senior 1888 on them.

He prob went out first and then sent for Margaret,Alice and Eric (Sandy) but I cant see him travelling at all.

Hi Vivienne,
Thanks so much for the info. I wonder where "Sandy" Eric was ?. He did come to NZ he is still alive, but has dementia

No Eric senior with them....

Name: Eric HAROLD
Date of departure: 10 April 1926
Port of departure: Southampton
Passenger destination port: Auckland, New Zealand
Passenger destination: Auckland, New Zealand

Date of Birth: 1924 (calculated from age)
Age: 2
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation:
Passenger recorded on: Page 6 of 18





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The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -

Alice HAROLD ..Date of Birth: 1922 (age 4)
Mrs Margt HAROLD ........Date of Birth: 1887 (age 39)



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Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
HORORATA
132757
E Holland
The New Zealand Shipping Company Limited
New Zealand
15401
7051
626

His name Eric Ross Harold he was born 31st Jan 1923. And we think he was about 2 when the family came to NZ

When was Sandy the son born?
And what is Sandy short for please?
Alexander?

Hi,
Sorry I have no idea, his children were born in Glasgow (2) of them, and I think they came out when Sandy, the son was about 2yrs old, but really not sure. They married in 1921

I dont see Eric on passenger lists going to NZ ,when would he have gone out there,and where from ,do you know?

Thanks Vivienne, I'm with you now

That messed up that explanation ,so I try again.


Erics brother Frank Aug Harold married in 1901 to Elizabeth,had 2 kids,Frank and Charles ,then died.
Elizabeth then married Mr Salmonese IN 1908.
Hence Frank and Charles are down as Step sons on 1911.

Hi, please forgive me for being slow or thick, but the 1911 census with the names Harold and Salomese, how do they tie in with the family

1911

Address:
36 Chesterford Road Manor Park E

SALMONESE, Leonard Head M 28 1883 Signal Engineer Fitter Peckham London
SALMONESE, Elizabeth Wife F 28 1883 Mile End London
....>>>HAROLD, Frank Stepson M 8 1903 Forest Gate Essex
......>>HAROLD, Charles G Stepson M 6 1905 West Ham Essex
SALMONESE, Leonard Alfred Son M 1 1910 East Ham Essex
SMETHURST, Alfred H Boarder Single M 55 1856 Marine Engineer Liverpool Lancs

Ah I guess Eric was just mistaken about his mother's surname. His father's occupation matches that birth announcement from the Times 'Deputy Controller of Accounts Public Works Dept'.

in 1911

HAROLD CHARLES G M 1905 6 West Ham Essex
HAROLD FRANK M 1903 8 West Ham Essex
living with
SALMONESE ELIZABETH F 1883 28 West Ham Essex
SALMONESE LEONARD M 1883 28 West Ham Essex
SALMONESE LEONARD ALFRED M 1910 1 West Ham Essex
SMETHURST ALFRED H M 1856 55 West Ham Essex

?

edit

Marriages Dec 1908 (>99%)
HAROLD Elizabeth W. Ham 4a 52 <<<
HOPGOOD William W. Ham 4a 52
SALMONESE Leonard George W. Ham 4a 52 <<<

Hi Bruce, The surname for Florence was on Eric Berkeleys marriage cert to Margaret Russell 1921 in Larnak. If says mother is Florence Agnes Harold M.S. MacDonald. Father Charles Harold Governement Auditor both parents are recorded as deceased.

If you use the person search form at FIBIS and just search for surname Macarthur there are these results in

Ecclesiastical records > Marriages > Bengal Marriages : Marriage Indexes

Presidency of Marriage BENGAL
Marriage Year 1856
Husband First Names John
Husband Surname Martin
Wife First Names Catherine
Wife Surname MacArthur

Presidency of Marriage BENGAL
Marriage Year 1860
Husband First Names Alexander
Husband Surname Stuart
Wife First Names Mary J
Wife Surname MacArthur

Presidency of Marriage BENGAL
Marriage Year 1864
Husband First Names John W S
Husband Surname Macarthur
Wife First Names Henrietta H
Wife Surname Ridsdale

Presidency of Marriage BENGAL
Marriage Year 1868
Husband First Names Charles
Husband Surname Harold
Wife First Names Florence A.
Wife Surname Macarthur

Presidency of Marriage BENGAL
Marriage Year 1868
Husband First Names John A.
Husband Surname Hopkins
Wife First Names Grace I. M.
Wife Surname Macarthur

Presidency of Marriage BENGAL
Marriage Year 1872
Husband First Names George
Husband Surname Lee
Wife First Names Emily S.
Wife Surname Macarthur

and given how close they were in time and in the same place as the Harold-Macarthur marriage I think I would investigate the possibility that they were siblings of Florence Agnes.

I forgot to ask where you had the surname Macdonald from for Florence please?

Hi, it was only a guess that Florence was Scottish. The only Scottish tie we know of is that Eric married Margaret Russell in Larnark, Margaret is Scottish, then they came to NZ. The family story is that Eric Harold won a Lottery and had a ball with all the money, ended up spending it, and found work in Scottland working as an Engine Fitter, Journeyman, married at about age 33. Margaret was 34 when she married him, apparently she was engaged to someone else.

If you go to the link I gave for searching at FIBIS you can do the same searches to see what the databases are where the records appear.

http://www.search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/index.php
http://www.search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php find a person

http://www.fibis.org/ is the Families in British India Society

Records after 1900 or so are not good but before that you can often find a lot of information.

Sorry, the birth info I put for "son" in 1973 was from The Times of India. FIBIS volunteers have indexed the BMD information from that paper so I think it would have been a birth announcement.

Hi thanks for the info. Whats the FIBIS ? Is there a newspaper article about the birth ?.

On Scotlands people there is one death for a Charles Harold in 1904.
None for Florence Harold though.

Thats just going on his wife maybe being Scottish and they may have retired there as their son married there.

Son Frank married

Marriages Jun 1901
BEDWELL Alfred James Poplar 1c 1095
Butler Elizabeth Poplar 1c 1095
Ellis Rose Selina K Poplar 1c 1095
HAROLD Frank Augustus Poplar 1c 1095 <<<

but I don't see him in the 1911 census, also no Harold-Ellis or Harold-Butler births from 1911 on.

But this is probably a son

Births Jun 1902
HAROLD Frank Augustus West Ham 4a 307

Name: Frank A Harold
Death Registration Month/Year: 1959
Age at death (estimated): 57
Registration district: Fulham
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 362

Maybe we should not be assuming that you are not familiar with Eric's siblings?