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Thanks Barbara and Satnav

I have now found 8 Frostic Mansions and I can say without any shadow of doubt that the person living there under the name of Hamberg is not Freedman Flamberg. I have searched for all the derivatives of Flamberg and have come up with a blank.

I am led to the conclusion that although Freedman stated on his daughter's birth certificate registered on 20 July 1910 that he lived at 8 Frostic Mansions, he was not there on 31 March 1901. Also I would strongly suspect that where ever he was on 31 March 1901 he would not have been able to fill in the Census form and probably just binned it. My reason for this is that he could not write his own name, speak, read or write English and neither could his wife Deborah. They were Polish Jewish immigrants who fled Poland during the Russian persecution of Jews in the then Russian Empire. The only language they spoke was Yiddish.

Their children at the time of the 1901 Census were aged 14, 10, 6, 4 and 2. The 14 and 10 year old were born in Poland and in any event they would not have been able to fill in a Census form, which I doubt their father would not have shown them anyway.

As he came to England in 1893 with his wife Deborah and two children he might also have been fearful of filling any official forms for fear of being taken way. So, it seems that we will never find a record of them in the 1901 Census. At least I have them in the 1911 Census.

My next task to to try to find out from where they came. This I fear will be an impossible task. I suspect that it was Warsaw and I believe he had siblings who all perished in the persecution by the Russians. In 1881 after Tsar Alexander II of the Russian Empire was assassinated, which was unfortunately blamed on the Jews, thousands fled to the UK and the USA.

Freedman's children are all now dead but there are grand children and great grand children of whom I am one. Freedman and his older children never spoke about life in Poland , they just tried to block it out, so there is very little information handed down. I have searched birth, death, marriage and the 1911 Census records of the Flambergs in the UK and that's fine. But I fear that any family tree will have to start with Freedman Flamberg ( which is probably not his first name anyway) born somewhere in Poland probably 1851.

I am extremely grateful for those who have contributed to my original query.

Thanks again,

Jeff Beecham formerly Flamberg

Hi Jeffrey
Go to 1901 census and just enter surname Hamberg then click search

Look down list until you come to Janie Hamberg
Click on view record at the side of her name

Now click on view image

You will then see the original hand written image and that they lived at 8 Frostic Mansions

At the top in the right hand corner there are two arrows pointing left and right you use these to go to the page before or the page after the one you have brought up

Hope this works
Regards
Barbara

Thanks Barbara

Julius was the eldest son of Freedman Flamberg, Annie, Jack and Esther were also children of Freedman. Morris Flamberg was my father.

Freedman was born in Poland and came to this country in 1893 aged 42.

I am aware of all those entries and have copies.

I must be thick but I still can't get to Frostie or as it is now Frostic Mansions via Ancestry. Can you please let me have an idiots guide.

Regards

Jeff

Some of their marriages


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Marriages Mar 1909 (>99%)
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FLAMBERG Julius Mile End 1c 498


Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1914 (>99%)
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Flamberg Annie Rubenstein Whitechapel 1c 434

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Marriages Mar 1917 (>99%)
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Flamberg Jack Beaver Whitechapel 1c 279
Flamberg Jacob Beaver Whitechapel 1c 279

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Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%)
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Flamberg Esther Rosenberg Mile End 1c 655

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Marriages Sep 1933 (>99%)
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Flamberg Morris Beecham Stepney 1c 555
Flamberg Samuel Rifkin Stepney 1c 700

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Hi Maureen

Yes FROSTIC
Thank for the reply
Regards
Barbara

Yes,Barbara,I agree with you.

And it's FROSTIC!!!

Maureen

Hi Jeffery
The Hambergs on the 1901 census lived a No 8.
Again it could be a miss transcription and if you compare the dates of birth of the father and mother and children with the 1911 census they are very close. I think that in the 1911 census they may have changed their Christian name to make them more English.
I use Ancestry for my research
I hope this helps to throw some light on this family
Regards
Barbara

Maureen could you let me know what you think

Yes Barbara it's Freedman Flamberg shown on the 1911 Census. I've a print out of the copy of the original census form. Not written by Freedman as he could not write his name; he signed the form with his mark. I suspect that you found him by looking up Hamberg as I did. But if you look closely at the handwriting you will see the the 'F' and 'L' run together to make what seems to be an 'H'. Here the enumerator transcribed it as Hamberg instead of Flamberg. You will also note the in the signature box it is clearly written Flamberg. I have raised this point with the 1911 Census people.

Regards

Jeff

Hi Maureen

I'm using GR. No it is definitely not them. His was born in 1860, his wife was Deborah and his children were Jack, Jim, Annie, Morris, Samuel and Esther. The family of Monassch Hamberg are wife Janie, children, Judah, Lilly, Tinha, Hannah, and Moses.

The problem with the 1901 Census is that the enumerators copied the details from original forms and the writing could have been difficult to read, hence names could have been inadvertently shown incorrectly. I have found this on another occasion. My hope was to look up 8 Frostie Mansions if it was show on the 1901 Census and see who lived there. As I have said Barbara managed to access the address, but I've failed to do so.

Still can't access Frostie Mansions.

Regards

Jeff

is this them in 1911
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG ALEC M 1885 26 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG ANNIE F 1893 18 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG BERTRAM M 1908 3 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG DEBORAH F 1868 43 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG ESTHER F 1901 10 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG FREEDMAN M 1851 60 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG JACK M 1887 24 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG MORRIS M 1895 16 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG SARAH F 1886 25 Whitechapel London
HOUSEHOLD HAMBERG SILVIA F 1910 10 MONTHS Whitechapel London
1

Good thinking!! And well done!

Maureen

Hi Maureen
I was looking for Flamberg and thought of different spellings and put in Hamberg. There are a few Hamberg in Whitechapel and when I clicked on view image found they lived in Frostie Mansions so was able to go through all the people living there
Regards
Barbara

What are you using? Ancestry or GR or...?

I'm still not convinced that isn't them,by the way...

Maureen

No, Monassch Hamberg is not the person I'm looking for. I have seen this entry.

I'm looking for Freedman Flamberg who was married to Deborah. On 20 July 1901 he registered the birth of his daughter Esther and gave his name as Freedman Flamberg and address as 8 Frostie Mansions Whitechapel. Now if the 1901 Census was taken on 31 March 1901 why is he not shown on the Census, unless he didn't fill in the form, the original records were too bad to copy or were destroyed or he went under another name. I believe that his name was Pflaumenbaum, which in German means Plum tree. However I've searched the 1901 Census with all sorts of combinations of the spelling including changing letters.

I was interested when Barbara said that she searched 1 -30 Frostie Mansions Whitechaple. I've not been to access this record.

I'm confused. Did Barbara find them by accident using HAMBERG instead of FLAMBERG?

Is this them??
1901 Ancestry (I'm not dealing with the transcription errors!)
Name: Monassch Hamberg
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Janie
Gender: Male
Where born: Rus Foreign Subject
Civil parish: Whitechapel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:8 Frostie?? Mansions

Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Mile End New Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 338
Household Members:
Name Age
Monassch Hamberg 50 Occ:Military tailor
Janie Hamberg 36
Judah Hamberg 19
Lilly Hamberg 13
Tinha Hamberg 12
Hannah Hamberg 9
Moses Hamberg 6
Samue Hamberg 3
Missie Garten 19
Chas Kaplin 22
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 302; Folio: 102; Page: 57

Maureen

PS-That's gotta be FROSTIC,not FROSTIE!!

Hi Jeffrey
I just put in the surname Hamberg and whitechapel came up went into the hamberg name and then clicked on to view image and found they lived in Frostie Masions I then found the first entry by using the arrow's at the top of the image page .
I hope this helps
Barbara

Perhaps if you put his 'other names' on here some-one may be able to find them?

Hello again Barbara

I see that you went through the records of Frostie Mansions Whitechapel. How did you do that? When I searched the 1901 Census under street/place it came up blank.

The reason why I ask is that is possible that Freedman Flamberg changed his name and that he was using another name at that time. I have several possible names.

Thanks Barbara

It's possible then that he moved between 31 March 1901 and 6 June 1901 to Frostie Mansions. With a wife and four children at least and another on the way by the time of the 1901 Census he decided to move to a bigger place in Frostie Mansions.

Many thanks for all your efforts.

I have been through from 1 to 30 for Frostie Mansions Whitechapel and no luck