Find Ancestors

some debate about birth place - have been advised that he may have been born in leicestershire around 1858 - this man will show on census as having servants because he apparently ran away with one and married her.......!!!
thanks
Lynda

One post per topic is the GR rule.....................

sorry ??

no marriage - on 1911 census there is a large x next to marriage particulars...seem to have hit a blank wall
lyn

This is the EDWARD KENNEDY whose marriage you are looking for on TRYING TO FIND

People will be duplicating lookups - which isn't fair on them.

I have spent the last 2 days looking for a marriage and their doesnt seem to be one - I have been advised that the next best option is to try to find his birth.....too much conflicting info about birthplace though - some census records say wrexham and some say nottingham but I cant find him in either place..now trying to find him in leicester....is it always so difficult trying to find ancestors ???
lynda

still looking for a birth certificate for edward kennedy born 1862.I have his death certificate so im fairly certain about his birth year - he lived with catherine o'neill and they had 10 children together and eventually settled in newton. I have spent 3 years trying to find his birth record - 1911 census says born in nottingham but 1901 census says born in wrexham [his partner came from wrexham]. can anyone advise me how to proceed please or do I just have to accept that there is no way of tracing him now ?
very many thanks.
Lynda

Before 1875, there was no penalty for not registering births.

Have you looked for a baptism?

Of course, without accurate birthplace info, it will be tricky, and his not marrying means that you have no way of verifying his father's name.......even if he knew him

just for INFO............1911

Person: KENNEDY, Edward
Address: 4 Grafton Street Earlestown Lancashire


KENNEDY, Edward Husband Married M 49 1862 Brick Setter Nottingham VIEW
KENNEDY, Catherin Wife Married F 50 1861 Wrexham Denbighshire VIEW
KENNEDY, Jane Daughter F 12 1899 Warrington Lancs VIEW
KENNEDY, Enenlor Daughter F 9 1902 Earlestown Lancs VIEW
KENNEDY, Mary Helen Daughter F 7 1904 Earlestown Lancs VIEW
KENNEDY, Aggnes Daughter F 3 1908 Earlestown Lancs VIEW


Weird to describe himself as 'Husband'........it would normally be 'Head'

He gives his birthplace as Wrexham in both 1891 and 1901.

Have you located him in 1881 - and earlier?

no sign of him in 1881...ive even looked at overseas births.on one census record there is a cross where they are supposed to say how many years been married which I think means he wasnt. The family say he was wealthy and ran away with the maid...they had 10 children together and one of the daughters was my greatgran - its strange how he has said he was born in wrexham AND Nottingham - the family story is that he was born in Nottingham.....hes a tough one to find !!!!

Hey, why can't I find them on the 1891??

Is this Catherine in 1861? --

Name: Catherine Oneill
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Timothy Oneill
Mother's name: Ann Oneill
Where born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Wrexham Regis

Timothy Oneill 36
Ann Oneill 40
Mary Ann Oneill 10
Lawrence Oneill 8
John Oneill 5
Catherine Oneill 1


Just wondering whether tracing her might show where she and Edward crossed paths.

The eldest child in 1901 shows as being born in Oldham.

Edward Kennedy 39 - Wrexham - brick cutter?
Catherine Kennedy 37 - Wrexham
Alfred Kennedy 16 0ldham, Lancashire
Kate Kennedy 12 Earlestown, Lancashire
Clara Kennedy 10 - Earlestown, Lancashire
Thomas Kennedy 7
Elizabeth Kennedy 5
Jane Kennedy 2


Sure are some Irish sounding names there ...

I still can't find them in 1891 for love nor money.

Earlestown seems to be in Newton in Makerfield in Warrington reg dist, and there's a Clara birth there in Q3 1891. Here we are, in 1891, for our info:

Name: Edward Kennedy
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Kate Kennedy
Where born: Westham, Denbighshire, Wales
Occupation: bricklayer

Civil parish: Newton

Edward Kennedy 31
Kate Kennedy 29
Alfred Kennedy 6
Kate Kennedy 2


So here's Kate/Catherine in 1881:

Name: Kate O'neill
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Servant
Where born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales

Civil parish: Chorlton On Medlock
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Chorlton

John Elliott 34
Margaret Elliott 30
Harold Beaty Elliott 8
Agnes Beatty 41
Kate O'neill 19


Not a lot of Kennedys born in Wrexham. This is the only other one I see in the censuses, and only in 1901:

Name: Annie Kennedy
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Boarder
no occupation shown
Where born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales

Civil parish: Toxteth Park

She's married. No husband present.

Hi
I have kates parents as catherine carle and patrick o'neill both from ireland....kate was born in wrexham.The servent in chorlton could be kate but Id hoped the census would show that other family members were called kennedy [the story goes that kate was a servant and ran away with her employers son.I have the oldham and newton le willows census details in my tree....with regard to timothy o'neill,I think he may have been kates uncle [her dad patricks brother] - I found them both on census in wrexham and both were Hawkers.....As I say I have done a lot of research over the past years but edward kennedys birth eludes me !!!
If this is kate working as a servant in chorlton is it possible to search that area for kennedys who may live close by ??
thanks
Lynda :D

I wonder if this is Alfreds birth??


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Dec 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------

O'Neil Alfred Oldham 8d 605



haven't checked this out yet, but just going on the area;


1881 England Census
about Geo Edwd Kennedy
Name: Geo Edwd Kennedy
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Son
Father's name: Edwd Kennedy
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Openshaw
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: Fairfield Terrace
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Surgeons Assistant

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 76
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3910
Folio: 58
Page Number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Edwd Kennedy 45
Geo Edwd Kennedy 19
Agnes Jane Kennedy 17
Elizth Pearse Griffiths 25 >> General Servant, born Brynfelyn, Flintshire


Dee x

Ok, so we can rule him out;

1901 England Census
about George E Kennedy
Name: George E Kennedy
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Penwortham
Ecclesiastical parish: Penwortham St Mary
Town: Penwortham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Dispenser, book accountant

Condition as to marriage: Widow

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Preston
Sub-registration district: Longton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 89
Piece: 3942
Folio: 25
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
George E Kennedy 38

What I'm wondering is how likely it is that Edward, a brick worker, was the son of somebody who had servants.

Dee's suggestion for Alfred's birth:

Births Dec 1884
O'Neil Alfred Oldham 8d 605

might be consistent with the story if Edward wasn't the son-of-employer in question, and Kate's first child was the child of some other father who was her employer's son.

My gr-grmother's first child, in 1890, was the child of my gr-grmother's employer's son. (She then married someone else and had other children.) As we understand it, it wasn't a matter of running away with, in that case, it was a matter of sexual assault. I think a lot of these situations probably were - if not outright assault, at least serious exploitation, and a less hurtful story might have been told.

I agree Edward is unlikely to have been that wealthy if he working as a brick setter. I wonder about this family living in Newton 1881 (which is where Edward and Kate are in 1891) and the mother is born Nottingham (Edward was obviously trying to escape tracing and may have used his mothers place of birth and his partners to confuse matters)

Newton Lilley St Lancs
David kennedy 36 Iron Turner b Woolwicj Kent
Hannah 36 wife b Nottingham
William 13 b Mancr
Alfred 11 b Mancr
Harrriet 8 b Newton
Walter 2 b Newton
Herbert 2mths b Newton

On second thoughts I think the parents David and Hannah are rather too young -if Edwards year of birth is right he would be 19 in 1881

I'm just wondering whether naming patterns might tell us anything.

The first daughter is Kate -- Kate's mother was Kate.
The next known son after Alfred (who may have had a different father) was Thomas. There's a daughter Eleanor (name interchangeable with Ellen).

Might Thomas be Edward's father's name?


1871

Civil parish: St Marylebone
County/Island: London

Thomas Kennedy 30 - bricklayer's labourer, born Ireland
Ellen Kennedy 40 - born Ireland
Edward Kennedy 10 - born Marylebone
Ellen Lellan 43 - servant (domestic), born Ireland


1861

Civil parish: Ripon
County/Island: Yorkshire

Thomas A Kennedy 26 - tea dealer, born Ripon
Eleanor Archbold Kennedy 26
John Edward Kennedy 5 - born Ripon
Eugenie Anne S Kennedy 3
Marid Eleanor Kennedy 1


1861

Civil parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire

Thomas Kennedy 30 - dock labourer, born Ireland
Sarah Kennedy 30 - born Ireland
Mary Kennedy 7
Fanny Kennedy 6
Edward Kennedy 2 - born Liverpool
Patrick Kennedy 6 Weeks


1861

Civil parish: Eccleshill
County/Island: Yorkshire

Thomas Kennedy 32 - tailor, born Glasgow
Zillah Kennedy 26
Edward Kennedy 4 - born Eccleshill
Titus Kennedy 1


1861

Civil parish: Liff, Benvie and Lnvergowrie
County: Angus

Thomas Kennedy 30 - carpet weaver, born Ireland
Elizabeth Kennedy 26
Edward Kennedy 4 - born Lochee, Forfarshire
John Kennedy 7
Sarah Quin 18
Margt Ganneton 16
Jane Mortimer 17


I might wonder about this one in 1861 too:

James Williamson 28
Bridget Williamson 34
James Williamson 7
Hannah Mcdonald 46
Alice Phillips 34
James Phaloone 8
John Mccartney 16
Jane Gray 40
Margaret Gray 17
William Gray 12
Edward Kennedy 5 MO - born Lochee, Forfarshire, boarder


Conversely, Edward's parents may have been unmarried and his mother may have been Kennedy.


We might simply never find Edward in a census before 1891, for a whole host of reasons

- he was born in Ireland and entered England only after 1881
- his father died when he was young (or his parents weren't married), his mother (perhaps Clara, his next daughter) (re)married, he appears in censuses under his stepfather's name
- his parents weren't married, he was registered under his mother's surname and adopted his father's surname as an adult

for example.


These are the only Edward Kennedys in 1881 born in the 1850s / early 1860s whose occupation is brick* (one would think that our Edward was working by 1881):

Name: Edward Kennedy
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856 - bricklayer's labourer
Relation: Son
Father's name: Edward Kennedy - born Ireland, bricklayer's labourer
Mother's name: Margaret Kennedy - born Ireland
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire

Name: Edward Kennedy - bricklayer's labourer
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Boarder
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Blackburn
County/Island: Lancashire

GillianMac, Kennedys in Newton could be interesting.

That couple is a little young to be his parents -- oh, you said that. ;)

David kennedy 36 Iron Turner b Woolwicj Kent
Hannah 36 wife b Nottingham = c1845

But ... what if Edward had been born to Hannah before the marriage?

Marriages Jun 1867
HOLLINGWORTH Hannah Manchester 8d 151
KENNEDY David Manchester 8d 151

For instance ...

Births Mar 1862
HOLLINGWORTH Edward Basford 7b 130

There's a death in Basford the next year, but no age. I don't see the 1862 Edward in 1871. The death could have been an 1839 Edward who is in Beeston in 1861.



This is the household in 1871 ...

David Kennedy 26
Hannah Kennedy 25 - born Bridford, Notts
Wm Nicholas Kennedy 3
Alfred Kennedy 1
Civil parish: Heath and Newton


Someone has corrected Hannah's name from HollingSworth in 1861 at Ancestry; could be worth enquiring.

crikey...such a lot to go off....Dee has found an edward kennedy in chorlton and earlier kate o'neill was discovered working as a servant in chorlton so that sounds promising. To be honest there are quite a lot of edward kennedys and any one could be my relative.....I know he was born 1861/62 as I calculated it back from his death certificate.The only other thing I know for sure is that he lived in oldham before moving to newton le willows. Oldham and chorlton are very close and I think Dee may have the closest match...will spend some time tomorrow reviewing all the info...thanks everyone...lynda x