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Hi Meg

I received birth cert today, this is the info on it

Percy John Cross, born 4th June 1900
Bilson Green
East Dean
Westbury on Severn (place of registration)
Gloucester

Father: John Cross, dock labourer
Mother: Clara Cross nee Matthews

Registered 12th July 1900

I have tried to search birth, death and cencus records but have been unable to find anything so far
kind regards
Kim

There is a tree on Ancestry with the family. Says father John was born Cockerham, Lancashire, mother born East Dean, Gloucestershire.

Here's the 1911 census:

128 SUMNER, Thomas Head Married M 34 1877 Coal Miner Hewer Brinscall Lancashire VIEW
128 SUMNER, Alice Wife F 33 1878 Cinderford Glostershire VIEW
128 ANNIS, Thomas Sumner Son M 10 1901 School Cinderford Glostershire VIEW
128 SUMNER, Frederick John Son M 7 1904 School Cinderford Glostershire VIEW
128 MATTHEWS, Percy John M 10 1901 School Pontshill Herefordshire VIEW
128 MATTHEWS, Cyril M 9 1902 Pontshill Herefordshire VIEW
128 ANNIS, Frederick Lodger Single M 28 1883 Coal Miner Hewer Cinderford Glostershire VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
27470 Reference:
RG14PN27470 RG78PN1573 RD505 SD3 ED10 SN128

Registration District:
Pontefract Sub District:
Pontefract Enumeration District:
10 Parish:
Tanshelf

Address:
30 Love Lane Terrace Pontefract County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

The transcription is wrong. The two Matthews boys are "Cousin's children". Percy is born Cinderford, not Pontshill.

Here's Percy in 1901:

1901 England Census
about Percy J Matthews
Name: Percy J Matthews
Age: 10 months
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Fleetwood
Ecclesiastical parish: Fleetwood St Peter
Town: Fleetwood
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Fylde
Sub-registration district: Fleetwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 149
Household Members: Name Age
William H Udall 57 Dock labourer
Ann Udall 51
Jane Cross 14 Step dau
Jonathan Cross 10 Step son
Percy J Matthews 10 months Boarder

Looks like Ann Udall was previously a Cross/married to a Cross.

Witnesses at the marriage of Percy John are Frederick John Sumner and Ellen Littlewood (per Ancestry Tree).

Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cross Ann Fylde 8e 1277
Udall William Henry Fylde 8e 1277

1891 England Census
about Jane Cross
Name: Jane Cross
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Nancy
Gender: Female
Where born: Fleetwood, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Thornton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Fleetwood
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Fylde
Sub-registration district: Fleetwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Cross 42
Nancy Cross 41
Joseph Cross 12
Isabella Cross 6
Jane Cross 4
Jonathan Cross 1

Oh, and son John 14 born Cockerham arrives home from his job as Night Watchman at the Port.

So Ann Udall/Cross/? is the grandmother of Percy John Matthews.

Now to find Alice Sumner and how Clara Matthews comes to be her cousin.

In 1911 Clara is back home with her mother and a third "illegitimate" child.

Thankyou so much for the information, I couldn't find any of this here on GR.
I have a couple of questions, I hope you don't mind me asking
I actually find some of the information a little confusing, according to the 1901 census he was known by the name of Matthews born at Cinderford, but yet on cert it says Cross born at Bilsdon Green. This bit I find confusing lol
Also what does boarder mean?
Is there anywhere that tells you the birth years of his parents, John and Clara? I have searched on GR but can find no trace in birth records or census's
Thankyou for your help, I am in your debt
kind regards
Kim

BARTLETT, Ellen Head Widow F 60 1851 Westonn Under Kenyard Ross Herefordshire VIEW
MATTHEWS, Clara Daughter Single F 36 1875 Dony Brook Gloucestershire VIEW
MATTHEWS, Marjorie Gertrude Granddaughter F 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Hope Mansell Nr Ross Herefordshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
15223 Reference:
RG14PN15223 RG78PN921 RD323 SD2 ED1 SN23

Registration District:
Westbury on Severn Sub District:
East Dean EnumerationDistrict:
1 Parish:
East Dean

Address:
Palmers Hill Pontshill Ross County:
Gloucestershire

Hi Kim

The Ancestry tree started me off cos it has comments about the family. I took John's year of birth from that, and it seems to tie in with what else I have found.

I can't remember if I found Clara in 1901, but am going to look at her side now. The 1911 I've just posted gives her year of birth as 1875 - if indeed it's the right Clara, cos I've not found her elsewhere.

It seems that somehow she met up with John and named him as the father and pretended that she was married to him, but there is no apparent marriage. The Ancestry tree reckons he was back in Fleetwood at the time of Percy John's birth. But he must have nipped back down South shortly afterwards:

Births Jun 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cross Cyril Westbury S. 6a 307

People used the term Boarder for all sorts of things, including relatives, so you can't read too much into it - he seems to be Ann/Nancy's grandson (but of course wouldn't be William's).

This is Clara in 1881:

1881 England Census
about Elijah Matthews
Name: Elijah Matthews
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Westbury On Severn - East Dean
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address: Hawthorns
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Coal Miner Unemployed

Registration district: Westbury On Severn
Sub-registration district: Newnham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elijah Matthews 31
Ellen Matthews 29
Clara Matthews 6
Lucy Matthews 3

Ah, she follows John up North:

1901 England Census
about Clara Matthews
Name: Clara Matthews
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Fleetwood
Ecclesiastical parish: Fleetwood St Peter
Town: Fleetwood
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Fylde
Sub-registration district: Fleetwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
James Turnbull 56
Elizabeth Turnbull 39
Charles Turnbull 25
Lillia Turnbull 13
Gilbert Turnbull 10
Elsie Turnbull 7
Lottie Turnbull 3
Clara Matthews 26

It's becoming very intriguing. So now we have a brother for Percy.
Looking through all the info you have posted there are a lot of connections leading back to gloucester, even the family Percy ended up with in Pontefract.

Here's her sister in 1891 - note she's described as a Boarder, when she is a step-daughter.

1891 England Census
about Lucy Matthews
Name: Lucy Matthews
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Drybrook; East Dean

Civil parish: Ruardean
Ecclesiastical parish: Ruardean
Town: Ruardean
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Ross
Sub-registration district: Ross
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Bartlett 51
Ellen Bartlett 40
Lucy Matthews 13
Joseph W Bartlett 1

Please forgive my late replies, the site is running very slowly at my end.
I have looked back through your posts and I cannot find reference to John's birth year?
This is all very fascinating, a lot of skeletons coming to light lol

ps I will be away from the PC for the next hour or so.
Thanks a million for your help

Hi Meg
Does John show up in the 1911 census? I don't have access to it on GR. I found him age 14 on 1991 census as being born 1877 which tallied with what you found, but there is no record of him on 1901 census.
Thanks

Yes the site was running slow for me too. Been out to the pub quiz and lost miserably, so just having a bit of therapy before bed.

I think the Ancestry tree had John born 1875, so I started with that, but seems it was probably 1876. No obvious birth is jumping out at me for him. No, I haven't found him in 1901, perhaps didn't look in 1911 or perhaps too many to look at. Will have a go now. You can only access the 1911 through the official website or Find My Past.

No, I can't find John in 1901 or 1911. At least not around the towns where he had relatives or was born/worked.

As you say, there are two lots of relatives from both Lancashire and Gloucestershire getting together, and moving to Pontefract. The families obviously knew that Clara and John were not married, so recorded the children in her maiden name.

I'd like to find out how Alice Sumner comes to be a cousin of Clara Matthews. I can find no marriage for Thomas and Alice to determine her maiden name. But it would be on the marriage cert of one of their children. But hold on, I bet her maiden name is Annis:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Thomas Sumner Annis
Name: Thomas Sumner Annis
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 294 (click to see others on page)

This apparently implies they were not married at his birth, but the father acknowledged his paternity.

And:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Frederick John Sumner
Name: Frederick John Sumner
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 299 (click to see others on page)

This implies they were married.

So Clara and Alice must have gone North, met their two fellas, and stayed in touch for at least a while.

Even though incomplete, what it implies to me is that Percy John was actually with family of some sort, rather than with strangers, and the fact that Frederick John Sumner was a witness at his wedding implies that he liked the family. I could be totally wrong of course!

Here's their marriage:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Thomas Sumner
Name: Thomas Sumner
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 611 (click to see others on page)

Spouse Alice Annis.

Ah, yet another tree on Ancestry has Alice Annis, daughter of James Annis (1849-1929) and Elizabeth MATTHEWS.

So, Elizabeth Matthews must be the sister of Clara Matthews' father, Elijah. Did I post that bit? I can't remember. Parents of Clara were Elijah Matthews 1849 and Ellen Marfell 1850.

1901 England Census
about Alice Annis
Name: Alice Annis
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Dau Adopted (Adopted)
Gender: Female
Where born: Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: East Dean
Ecclesiastical parish: Woodside St Stephen
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Westbury on Severn
Sub-registration district: East Dean
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
James Annis 52
Harriett Annis 47 (must be second wife)
James Annis 22
Sidney Annis 15
Alice Annis 24
Ivon Bartlett 10 months
Thomas Annis 9
Edith Annis 13

Transcription is wrong again. It says Alice Annis is adopted daughter. It is Ivor (Ivon?) Bartlett who is adopted. Interesting that Clara Matthew's mother's second marriage was to a Bartlett. I haven't worked that one out yet!!!!

So here's Elijah and Elizabeth together:

1861 England Census
about Elijah Matthews
Name: Elijah Matthews
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Elijah
Mother's Name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: East Dean
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Gloucestershire
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Westbury On Severn
Sub-registration district: Newnham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 35
Household Members: Name Age
Elijah Matthews 40
Harriet Matthews 36
Enoch Matthews 18
Thomas Matthews 16
Eliza Matthews 14
Elijah Matthews 12
Elizabeth Matthews 9
Hannah Matthews 6
Emma Matthews 2