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looking for Arthur J H Ball born 1909 in Pancras

Just for info

Marriages Jun 1933 (>99%)
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Ball Arthur J H Watson W.Ham 4a 265
Jones Richard J Sweeney W.Ham 4a 265
Sweeney Louisa A J Jones W.Ham 4a 265
Watson Florence L Ball W. Ham 4a 265


I presume you do not have the marriage cert for her age and name of her father etc

"i think she was born in 1911 poss in w. ham"
-- Can you tell us what that's based on? If she was, and it was after March 1911, she won't be in the census. Best idea seems to be to get the marriage certificate to learn her father's name, for searching the 1911 census.


This seems to be the husband's death:

Name: Arthur John H Ball
Birth Date: 9 Jun 1909
Death Registration Month/Year: 1977
Registration district: Waltham Forest
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 15
Page: 1021

Births Sep 1909
BALL Arthur John H Pancras 1b 75


Do you know when Florence died? The death record would give an idea of her age, and possibly give her date of birth.

Since Steven opted not to use capital letters, I read

florence l watson

as meaning

Florence L Watson

rather than

Florence I Watson.

Florence *L* Watson is the name on the marriage.

There really are reasons for the shift key on the keyboard, and for using it -- and the fact that capital "i" and small "L" look identical in the font used at this site, and that people expect a middle initial to be an upper-case letter, not a lower-case letter, is just one. I think Jonesey has been led astray and had some time wasted.

sorry its florence L watson. think the L is louise, i dont yet know when she died but the death record for arthur ball looks correct

Exactly why I posted the marriage details as it could have been either "i" or "l"

No reason to suggest she was born anywhere near where she married.

With the marriage cert she could have been 16 or 36 or 60 when she married or even already a widow or divorced when she married in 1933

Im very sorry that my written English and my keyboard skills aren't up to scratch

Before 1911, middle names were included in birth (and marriage) registrations -- but starting in 1911, only middle initials were.

There's no Florence Louise Watson birth 1900-1910.

These would be a couple of possibles with middle initial L -- you can do the same searching at FreeBMD:

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Births Sep 1911
Watson Florence L Jones Brentford 3a 384

Births Jun 1913
Watson Florence L Chalkley Bethnal G. 1c 281

The best thing really would be to get the marriage certificate.

If her father was, say, John Watson, you could then see whether there was a John Watson marriage to a Jones or a Chalkley to match one of those births.

I'm basing that she was born in west ham after getting information from my uncle, although not 100 %

This Florence L Ball died in the same place, at almost the same time, as Arthur Ball:

Name: Florence Lilian Ball
Birth Date: 17 Feb 1909
Death Registration Month/Year: 1977
Registration district: Waltham Forest
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 15
Page: 0888

Births Mar 1909 ??
Watson Florence Lilian Downham 4b 301

Are you taking on board the advice about getting the Ball+Watson marriage certificate, Steven?

Anything done without that is going to be guesswork. The only way of determining her identity is by getting the info that the certificate will give: her full name, her age at marriage, her marital status and her father's name.

Thanks everyone for your help, i will look through freeBMD, and if no help will order the wedding cert

I found that a Willam Watson married a Florence Chalkley in 1913 in Bethnal Green on the FreeBMD search, looks promising, but i guess i'll have to get the marriage cert to be sure

Steven, as I said in your new thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1208903

**the information about Arthur Ball is in this thread**

Specifically: he was born AFTER March 1909 -- his death record gives a DOB of June 9, 1909.

He will therefore likely appear in the 1911 census as aged *one*, not two, as he would not yet have had his second birthday.

Accordingly, the Arthur Ball in an institution in Hackney, aged 2, is much less likely to be your Arthur than an Arthur shown as aged 1 / born 1910 would be.

Sometimes it's possible to avoid obtaining certificates to get the information you are looking for, which would appear to be Arthur's parents' names. Sometimes it isn't.

I don't know how you settled on the Arthur Ball aged 2 in an institution in Hackney.

There are two results for

Arthur Ball
born 1910 +/- 1 year in Pancras

HOUSEHOLD BALL ARTHUR 1910 1 St Giles London
HOUSEHOLD BALL ARTHUR 1910 1 West Ham Essex

ok Janey once ive found a possibility on 1911 census, how do i find the other relatives in household

The easy way is to pay ... or wait for someone with paid access to come along and do the lookup. (I don't need the 1911 for myself, so I don't pay for access.) To hasten that result, you might edit your subject line to add "update p.2, 1911 lookup?" for instance.

It can be fun to find things one's self, of course. So ...

Do a search for

surname BALL
place of residence ST GILES
living with
given name ARTHUR
surname BALL

and you will find that, unfortunately, there are more than one household in St Giles with an Arthur Ball. However, aha, only one of the St Giles-s in question seems to be the one in London. In the search results, click on "District/other". Then click on it again, to get the resutls in reverse alphabetical order.

Then do a search for, say,

ARTHUR BALL
in St Giles
living with
KATE BALL (one of the names in the results list)

Nope, that Arthur is 17 yrs old. Ditto for the Arthur living with Ellen Ball. Okay, struck it lucky on Emily Ball. That's the Arthur aged 1.

So now, look for

surname BALL
in St Giles
living with
given names ARTHUR EMILY
surname BALL

and you'll see there is one other person in the household.

Lather, rinse and repeat for the Arthur Ball in West Ham.


None of this will tell you which Arthur Ball is yours. Only the marriage/birth certificate will do that.

Thank you Janey i will order the wedding cert, to make sure i get the right Arthur and Florence. Ive been doing this a couple of weeks now and got over 300 poeple in my tree, but this is the hardest line to find as its my mothers , fathers side and he left home when my mother was very young. I do now understand how to use the 1911 census thank you

im still finding it hard to find arthur on 1911 census, would someone please be able to look him up for me.....his name was Arthur J H Ball, born c1909, place of birth Pancras. Thank you

Unless you get the marriage certificate of these two people and learn *their fathers' names* and *their ages at marriage*, anybody doing any more searching will be wasting their time, don't you think?

What more are you imagining anyone can do, searching the 1911 census, than I did here already?

You have no way of knowing whether any Arthur Ball in the 1911 census is yours, unless you get the marriage certificate -- *and* the birth certificate that matches that death, hoping the birth and marriage certificates match re age and father's name. Neither does anyone else!!

If you *did* get the marriage certificate as you said you were going to do, then you need to offer up all the information that is on it!