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Thanks Mel aswell,

A shoemaker and saddler could be interchangable couldn't they as both are working in leather?

Thanks

Julie

Thanks K

That could certainly be them,her grandchild called Euphemia died quite young and is buried in Toxteth cemetary.

I was wondering where that name came from because it sounds so unusual.

Thanks again

Julie

1841 Scotland Census
about John Gray
Name: John Gray
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Midlothian, Scotland

Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: Wharton Place No 8
Occupation: Saddler <<<<<<<<<<
Parish Number: 685/2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Gray 55 1786 Has to be John's mother.
John Gray 25
Euphemia Gray 20
Grace Gray 15
Robert Stevenson 10
Ann Kinner 20

Poss Christening of John with mother Mary.

JOHN GRAY Pedigree
Male

Christening: 05 JUL 1812 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland


Parents:
Father: JOHN GRAY Family
Mother: MARY BANKS

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

Could this be the John Gray, Isabella's father??

1891 England Census
about John Gray
Name: John Gray
Age: 76
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Midlothian (Edinburgh), Scotland

Civil parish: St Giles North
Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: BOOTMAKER<<<<<<<

Widow


Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles, North
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Gray 76

The same family in 1861 - with the wife's name being the same as her possible grandchild

Name: John Gray
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Euphemia
Gender: Male
Where born: Tulliallan, Perthshire
Registration Number: 685/5
Registration district: Newington
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: 68 East Cross Causeway
Occupation: Bootmaker
ED: 50
Household schedule number: 55
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1861_129
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gray 44
Euphemia Gray 42 b Clackmanan
James Gray 19
John Gray 16
David Gray 14
Catherine Gray 10
Isabella Gray 5
Agnes Gray 3
Thomas Clacke 18 Boarder

Hi Julie! There is this one in 1871 with a father John who was a shoemaker

Name: John Gray
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Egphiman
Gender: Male
Where born: Perthshire
Registration Number: 685/5
Registration district: Newington
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: 68 East Crosscauseway
Occupation: Shoemaker
ED: 54
Household schedule number: 75
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1871_165
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gray 55
Egphiman Dickie 53 wife??
John Gray 26
Isabella Gray 15
Agnes Gray 13
William Gray 7

Thanks K

Its mainly Isabella who I am interested in and her parents,siblings etc

You have been fantastic on my other thread (Thwaites Cumbria)

Thanks again

Julie

Sorry Flick,

Emmanuel and Isabella married in 1877 jun qtr,in the parish of St Michaels Liverpool.Both where aged 21 at the time of the marriage.

His parents where Thomas Cliffe and Mary Onions,both born in Cheshire.
I have the info on these.

The only info I have on Isabella is what has been posted

Thanks

Julie

For info

1891

Name: Isabella Cliffe
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Emmanuel
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Cleopas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Emmanuel Cliffe 34
Isabella Cliffe 35
Thomas Cliffe 13
John Cliffe 10
Mary E Cliffe 8
Emmanuel Cliffe 6
Saraem Cliffe 4
Euphemia G Cliffe 1

I have just received my great x 2 grandparents marriage certificate after a 3 week wait.

There names where Emmanuel Cliffe and Isabella Gray.

I have the info on Emmanuel its all listed on a thread called Census Queries.I did'nt know whether to post on the old thread or start a new one.

What I was wondering is when Isabella and her family came from Scotland.On the census records with Emmanuel it states she was born in Scotland.

Her father was a John Gray and it says on the cert that he was a shoemaker.

Isabellas address on the cert says Madryn Street Liverpool.
I've checked it out on google maps and its still there although all the houses seem to be boarded up.

Thanks for all your previous help

Julie