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Vera
Just to let you know I have now got Reuben's birth cert and it confirms that Richard and Elizabeth are his parents
Only setback is that I had hoped to get Elizabeth's maiden name,but she is Elizabeth Johns nee Johns!!!
Mistake or a relative ????
More to find out now
Lara

Llara,
We can only hope.... :-))

Regards Vera

Vera
Thank you for that
I am just going to get the papers and will get back to this when I get back
It is nice to be getting somewhere with William Johns now,would be good to sort Annie out too!
Lara

Looks like William must have died.....

Marriages Jun 1854 (>99%)
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JEWELL Catherine Truro 5c 325
>>>>>Lawry Harriet Truro 5c 325
>>>>>>Rogers William Williams Truro 5c 325
SCOBLE James Truro 5c 325


Cannot be 100% sure of this marriage

Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
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Blackmore Jessie Plymouth 5b 545
RIDER James Plymouth 5b 545
ROGERS Harriet Plymouth 5b 545


This one doesn't show all the parties...

Regards Vera

Vera
Thank you
I will make a note of it..
Trouble is,she seems to just mirror her husband's birth place on censuses..so can't be certain where she was from.
Her year of birth seems quite constant though.
Lara

Then there is this one.....

1871
Ann M Rogers
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's Name: Harriet
Gender: Female
Where born: Devonport, Devon, England
Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Household schedule number: 403
Household Members: Name Age
John McLachlan 27
Harriet McLachlan 33
James John McLachlan 4
Alice Rogers 11
Ann M Rogers 9


Regards Vera

Llara, I did find this one...........Thought I would show it to you anyway.

Anne K Rogers
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Female
Where born: Plymouth, Devon, England
Civil parish: St Andrew
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Plymouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Plymouth
Sub-registration district: St Andrew
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 48
Household Members: Name Age
Maria Rogers 43
Ruth W Rogers 9
Anne K Rogers 7
Clara H Rogers 5
Maria J Rogers 1 year, 6 months


But although the fathers name isn't on the census...when I look at marriages it looks like this Annes father is Samuel.

Regards Vera

It is..
I reasoned that the 1881 was a good bet.She married the following year so would have been single then and there are not many Annie Rogers born around 1861
But I can't see any likely ones.
Can't even see a suitable Annie with a father named William in 1871.
A family member thinks her mother may have been a Catherine but can't be sure of that, also that she was part Spanish!!??
Maybe the Maria makes them think that.
Lara

Llara,

Thanks.
It is shame we cannot work out which Annie/Anne Maria Rogers is yours.

Regards Vera

Vera
Of course I will let you know.
I have a couple to order(for a diffewrent branch) so will add this to it
Lara

Llara,
If you do decide to get the birth certificate....I would be interested to know the outcome.If you wouldn't mind letting me know.

Regards Vera

Hi Vera
Yes,the mother does seem too old,but not impossible I suppose.
Maybe there are even older children and he is a grandson?
This family are such a mix up...I might get the birth cert out of curiosity!
Lara

Be interesting to see his birth certificate........
Births Mar 1861 (>99%)
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JOHNS Reuben Augustus St Germans 5c 45

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Of course his grandparents/parents could have told porkies !!!!

Regards Vera

Hi Llara, It states son for Reuben, but as you said his supposed mother would be too old.....I wonder if he is a grandchild ?????

Regards Vera

Ivy
Thank you very much for the 1861.
I thought that the parents seemed old for the ages of William and Reuben,but the older children make sense
Lara

Just adding the 1861 census to fit to Vera's 1871 finding:

Name: William Johns
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Elisabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: South Hill, Cornwall, England

Civil parish: Sheviock
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: St Germans
Sub-registration district: St Germans
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c

Household schedule number: 152
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Johns 55
Elisabeth Johns 51
Francies Johns 15
Elisabeth Johns 13
William Johns 4
Reuben A Johns 2 Mo <<<(Reubin on 1871 stated born Sheviock)
William Beek 56
John Bawden 35
Robert Bawden 16

No,can't find it,but I have definitely heard the name,so will go through my notebooks.
That is definiitely them though..
Thank you all for your help
Lara

Rutland Belle
Yes that must be them..
William/Charles was a plumber when the children were born,but the rest fits and also I seem to remember the name Mary Luscombe from somewhere
I am going to check my tree,
Lara

tried to find in 1911 for birth places:
could this be them??
Married 29 yrs = 1882
1911 census transcription details for: 4 Norland Gardens

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN219 RG78PN7 RD3 SD1 ED23 SN272


Reg. District: Fulham Sub District: North Hammersmith
Parish: Hammersmith Enum. District: 23

Address: 4 Norland Gardens
County: London


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

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JOHNS, Charles Head Married
29 years M 53 1858 Fitter Devon Torgnay

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JOHNS, Annie Wife Married F 50 1861 Devon Torgnay

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LUSCOMBE, Mary Boarder Single F 9 1902 Devon Plymouth

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had 3 children all living, birth places are Torquay

Llara, Our ancestors never make it easy for us!!!

Regards Vera