Find Ancestors

Please let us know whether you have any luck or not.

Thanks May Blossom

In fact I had not thought of looking for Patrick or James Tomlin death info. Will have a look see and maybe something will come up

Beverley

Have you looked for Birth, Marriage or Death of Patrick Tomlin?

The family could have become known as Finians and possibly as in Wales where people were known as Jones the Milk or Davies the Butcher, Patrick could have become known as Patrich the Finian and as name changes were common in those days he could have become known as Patrick Finlan (Finlen) People changed their name for all number of reasons. Do you have Ancestery membership? I don't at the moment but if you don't maybe you could ask for help on Trying to Find.

MBEOS

I like where your mind goes!!!! Entirely plausible ... on the marriage cert for James, the father is Patrick Finlen ... I have not found any information at all about him yet James, whose census I find has Finlen. Could he have made up his father's surname to be Finlen based on your idea, do you think?

Beverley :)

Hello Beverley, I know it was a strange thought of mine but if there were say another family living either in the same houseor next door or upstairs or wherever, lots of families shared houses and even rooms, and the family you are looking for happened not to be in, the enumerator could have asked one of these other persons "Who else lives here" and got the reply, "Well there are the Finians(Feneans, Finiens) who at that time were agitating for freedom for Ireland from England i.e. 1848-1922 in Ireland and England, later in the US and Canada, and the neighbour perhaps didn't think that they maybe "shopping" this family or at least the Father to the Government and who knows, maybe his disappearance from the next census could mean he was in prison.
OK my imagination does tend to run away with me I read too many mysteries, but it is a possibility, and lends a bit of excitment.
As for ages on the census the informant could have guessed by comparing them with their own children
Regar ds

PM'd Sue
Beverley

That is an interesting concept MB - one I had not considered.
James Finlen Snr married MAry Caroline Magee in Newcastle in 1858 - marriage cert says Finlen - the censuses that were changed came after that..

Have been told Finlen is an unusual name and keep losing the trail as a result of spelling changes. Family has kept Finlen spelling in Australia.

Cannot find bith and deaths of James Snr anywhere as I don't know where to start looking. Only know James Snrs father was Patrick. Sounds Irish, doesn't it????

Beverley

Just had a thought, the surname was given as Tomlin on 1861 census and you altered it to Finlan, could it be possible than an enumerator was told they were Finians and mistook this for their name? Maybe this sounds daft but strange things did happens with dialects etc., if these people were of Irish decent and not understood properly, the enumerator may have put anything down in those days.The only difference between Finlan and Finian is the i and the l.

Hi Beverley,
Re Coroner's reports / inquests, when I was trying to find my OH's grandfather's details the London Metropolitan Archives said few papers survived as they were quite fragile.
If you would like to pm me, I am going to the National Archives next month and may get time to look for you.
regards
Sue

Thanks for that lead Marcie

Certainly James' antics would have been enough to stress any mother trying to care for 4 children - especially with not a lot to live on

Beverley

Hi Beverley
colney hatch do have records of their inmates, it might be worth an e-mail to them as they sometimes have photo's too, also not all inmates had mental health issues, sometimes it was just a convenient place to put people
marcie

Thank you Kay and Tracey for your info and Tracey if you find anything in the papers that would be great, but as you say, as it was an accident maybe not newsworthy ...

Beverley :)

I have access to newspapers online....i shall have a look and see what comes up.

There is nothing in the London Gazette, The times or the general 19th Century newspapers i have access to!

This is what i have found on TNA....

St Bartholomew's Hospital Archives and Museum
Record type Date range

Administrative 1137 - 1998
General 1549 - 1974
Finance 1547 - 1963
Estates 1137 - 1976
Nursing 1877 - 1962
Admission & Discharge 1818 - 1971
Staff 1645 - 1974
Ephemera 1800 - 1974
Pictorial1800 - 1998
Private Papers 1800 - 1990
Clinical & Patients 1826 - 1985

I would imagine if you contacted the hospital they would be able to assist you more. As the accident wasn't newsworthy the inquest wasn't probably either. As time passes things like inquest results became less important as towns got bigger. Had it not been London i think there may have been a chance you'd find it published in a local paper, but with London being so big it's less likely.

I hope this helps you a little bit more.

The only other thing you could do is contact the coroner's office who might be able to tell you where the inquest paperwork would have been discharged to, however be aware the paperwork may not have survived.

I know my partner's Grandfather had an inquest on his death in 1947 and the inquest paperwork was destroyed after a few years. They are very rarely kept, only in major news incidents, whereby they are kept because of their historical importance.

Tracey x

The London Metropolitan Archives holds hospital records of St Barts.

n

OK Ginny

WOW - could be

James Jr's siblings were William, Francis b 1862 and Mary Caroline b 1863. I found Mary Caroline later in Census with a Hoppey family who were also listed in another Census with Finlens and also French Polishers.

Irene
Yes James Snr was a French polisher and it seems his wife my G-G-Grandmother ended up in Colney-Hatch Lunatic Asylum.

James Sr basically abandoned his family in favour of the Chartist Movement and Fenians

Beverley

Thats intersting Irene because the James James above is down as married on the 71 census but there is no wife to be seen

Hmmmm

Did the article 1868 re James Finlen in the Times newspaper refer to your family. James mentions his wife is in an asylum and it appears he did not care for his children very well - he was a french polisher by trade. Irene

Now you're gonna think Im nuts and maybe I am!

1871 England Census
about James James
Name: James James
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James <French polisher
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester
Civil parish: Islington St Clement
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 54
Household schedule number: 241 <<<3 York Place
Household Members: Name Age
James James 40 <<London
James James 13
William James 12 <<London
Frank James 9 <<London


I wonder if either they changed their name or the ennumerator was having a bad day?


Theres a few different families at this address.....could the ennumerator have been given the wrong name by someone else in the house?

Yes, Ginny

That's me who entered the correction.

For anyone else - I am wondering if anyone comes up with a miraculous idea and is able to do some miraculous legwork either at newspapers or hosp records.......

Many thanks
Beverley