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Hi Joanne, Have you been on the Minera Ancestry website. There is a forum all about Coedpoeth which can be accessed by free registration. Everyone is very helpful there, some members maybe able to help you find where your family are also buried. I believe there were two Williams' families living in the area at that particular time, one being my lot and possibly the other being your family. It's worth a try.

Brill...

Then we wait for the postie impatiently...

Fan

Thanks I've ordered that.

I am beginning to think Florence might be Elsie and not Molly as Tracey suggested. This would make her 17 when married.

In that case then Elsie has to be much older than remembered.
She could not have married in 1920 and had Audrey in 1925 if born in c1915 herself..

Her marriage cert is the only way to be sure of finding her and Winnie plus others on census and takes all the guess work out if you wish to be certain of having the correct tree.
And with Williams as a surname you need that.
It will give her fathers name and occupation plus her age and maybe family members as witnesses...

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about Samuel France
Name: Samuel France
Spouse Surname: Williams
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Lanchester
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 836

Name: Elsie Williams
Spouse Surname: France
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Lanchester
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 835


£9.25p from the GRO with these refs (just in case you dont know,some people dont)

www.gro.gov.uk.

Without that it is going to be very difficult for you to go back..

It would seem that Tracey has found Sam France on 1911 for you as it is right place and birth place,but gets no nearer finding Elsie ,Winnie etc for sure unfortunately.

If you order and get that marriage cert please do come back here and we will look for you again and this time will have concrete details to work with,which is by far the best way....

Fan.

Audrey was Sam and Elsie's daughter.

Samuel France and his family in 1911?

1911 RG14PN29908 RG78PN1731 RD550 SD3 ED9 SN142
Address: 12 New Single Street County: Durham
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FRANCE, Isam Head Married M 54 1857 Coal Miner Hewer Mirfield Yorkshire
FRANCE, Alice Wife Married 25 years F 45 1866 Mirfield Yorkshire
FRANCE, Lousia Daughter Single F 16 1895 Quebec Durham
FRANCE, Samuel Son M 13 1898 School Quebec Durham
FRANCE, Fred Son M 11 1900 School Quebec Durham
FRANCE, George Son M 9 1902 School Quebec Durham
FRANCE, Emma Daughter F 5 1906 School Quebec Durham
JARVIS, Joseph Boarder Single M 37 1874 Coal Miner Hewer Liecterdike Bradford

Any names / ages for Sam and Elsie France children would help.

Night.

I'll check out all your info. It's a great help.

Interesting...

1901 RG number: RG13 Piece: 5219 Folio: 85 Page: 26
Address: 1, Middle Road, Bersham County: Denbighshire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WYNNE, Robert E Head Married M 28 1873 Coal Miner Coedpoeth Denbighshire
WYNNE, Sarah A Wife Married F 31 1870 Mold Flintshire
ROBERTS, John E Nephew Single M 12 1889 Coedpoeth Denbighshire
WILLIAMS, Charles Boarder Single M 40 1861 Coal Miner Coedpoeth Denbighshire

This 'looks' like him in 1901...... but unmarried? Then again he could have been lodging away from home, and the person he's boarding with did not know he was married and listed him as single?


Tracey x

"Molly died around 1987 aged approx 94 in Coedpoeth. "

That would give her a 1893 ish birth date.....

I will search some more tomorrow...Gotta go now.

Sam France and Elsie Williams marriage cert would give you their fathers name ,I can only find the one in 1920 to suit with a daughter Audrey born in 1925...

Patricia,

I have had a fairly good look at the 1911 census and the one FBG has found for you is the most likely in my opinion.

It has all the right people in the right place, the fact the order of birth is not right is somehting that could have been effected by time and memories, and the reliability of the data given.

The data for the 1911 is however written down by the parents.

It's possible Elsie lied on her marriage cert therefore making her appear to have been born earlier... indeed it might have been a pretence she kept up all her life!



Tracey x

Patricia
I think Elsie was stayed in the Co. Durham area but no idea about her death.

FannyByGaslight
I know Winnie died first but no idea when probably before 1977. Molly died around 1987 aged approx 94 in Coedpoeth. Betty was definitely still alive in 2000 and living near to Coedpoeth. I am only assuming she's dead now.

It is possible they are older than I thought I'm trying to work out ages from the one occassion I met them as a child.

Thanks again to you all

Sadly people's memories change over time, it's quite possible facts have been muddled over the years.


Tracey x

Do you have any names ages for Sam and Elsie France children Joanne...

Like?

Name: Audrey France
Mother's Maiden Surname: Williams
Date of Registration: Jul Aug Sep 1925

I think it best to try to get there through Elsie as she is the one that the most seems to be known about..

That is my opinion for what it is worth anyway....

Joanne says that Molly is the oldest, then Winnie. So 1911 does not fit that unless Joanne has been told incorrectly?

Births Mar 1927
Williams Eric Williams Sunderland 10a 1134

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about Samuel France
Name: Samuel France
Spouse Surname: Williams
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Lanchester
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 836

Name: Elsie Williams
Spouse Surname: France
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Lanchester
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 835


So maybe the girls are older than thought?

FBG

The marriage that matches your 911 find.

Marriages Jun 1899
Williams Charles Wrexham 11b 417
Woodhouse Mary Ann E Wrexham 11b 417


Tracey x

Eric was born in 1926

If we knew when Eric was born we'd be able to narrow downt he search for Michael on the emigration records!


Tracey x