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Oh I think this could be interesting, take the Elizabeth Plesance from 1881 and look at her in 1871 and here she is in a household with Ramsays

Name: Elizabeth Pleasent
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Narford, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Crowle
Town: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Ramsay 60
Sarah Ramsay 64
Richard Warden 39
John Odnot 43
Charles Mann 29
Elizabeth Pleasent 39
Mary Ann Pleasent 9
Betsy Pleasent 12
George Alcock 40

John Ramsey is a farmer, his wife is a lodging house keeper, Elizabeth Pleasent is a widow with no occupation shown.


The Ramseys had a son named William in their household in 1851

Name: William Ramsey
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Thorne, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Ramsey 40
Sarah Ramsey 44
Thomas Ramsey 20 >>> see the 1871 census below
Harriet Ramsey 18
William Ramsey 16
James Ramsey 12
Sarah Ann Ramsey 11
Mary Ann Ramsey 6
John Colbridge 2
Henry Bell 35

He was William Henry Ramsey and he married Mary Coward? in 1856.
But this is a better William Henry Ramsey, in 1881, he married Ann Maria Oldfield in 1880.

Name: William H. Ramsey
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann M.
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowle, Lincoln, England

Civil parish: West Stockwith
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Registration district: Gainsborough

William H. Ramsey 24
Ann M. Ramsey 21
Harriete A. Ramsey
George Lee 18


I will bet my farm that I don't have that he was Sarah Jane Pleasant's father, when he was very young. Now what did her birth certificate say, again? . . . George Pleasant and Sarah Thorp. (and Marie it does not make sense to ask for help and then say "not yet" you haven't looked for a marriage) There is no such marriage, there are no such people, there are Thorpes in Thorne disctrict but not Thorps. Who registered the birth Marie, the mother, and what was the father's occupation?


1871

Name: William Henry Ramsey
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Harriett
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowle, Lincolnshire, England
Civil parish: Crowle
Town: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Registration district: Thorne

Thomas Ramsey 40 >>> see the 1851 census son of John and Sarah
Harriett Ramsey 38
William Henry Ramsey 14

Marie, can you explain again why you are looking for a Sarah Jane Pleasant when your great-grandmother married as Sarah Jane Ramsey and said her father was William Ramsey?

Oh yes because Mary Alice was born Pleasant, but do you have the certificate and it says Sarah Jane Pleasant for mother?

And now I am not understanding why a child of Sarah Jane Ramsey and John Astley (your grandmother) said her father was William Ramsey. What does her birth certificate say?

Or no, she was born before the Astley marrage
Births Dec 1893
Pleasant Alice Mary Thorne 9c 820

but what does her birth certificate say?

and . . . where are they in 1901? Are these people interesting in 1901?

John Welsh 35
Sarah J Welsh 29 born in Crowle
Alice M Welsh 7 born in Crowle
Civil parish: Great Grimsby

there is no marriage for that couple and no birth for that Alice M

Just to let you know that on my grandmas marriage certificate (not her birth certificate) it states that her father is a william ramsey deceased.
Also on her mothers marriage certificate (sarah Jane) it states her father as a william ramsey deceased. HELP

I am so confused. I will re look at your answers tomorrow and try and work this out, Thanks for helping.

Patricia you will want to look at the thread I just posted because it is about Alice Mary who apparently married as a Ramsey.
edit . . . I'm sorry, Sarah Jane married as a Ramsey.

Marriages Jun 1906
Astley John Sheffield 9c 975
Ramsey Sarah Jane Sheffield 9c 975

It is really too confusing and unnecessary and not quite fair to have different threads.

Marie did you ever answer the question of what Sarah Jane said for her father's name on her marriage certificate?

In 1861 the Pheasant household from 1871 on page 1 of the thread, note William Cundall, that is the surname of Sarah Ellen.

George Pheasant 39
Sarah E Pheasant 29
Alfred W Pheasant 8
Charles H Pheasant 6
Annie E Pheasant 2
William Crapper 21
William Cundall 18
John Tooms 15
Hannah Smith 19

Sarah's daughter (so did not marry?):
Births Dec 1893
Pleasant Alice Mary Thorne 9c 820

Well, you should have continued that thread. I am afraid we are probably doing all over what has been done before?

The Plesances in 1881 . . . Elizabeth is 59 and Sarah Jane is 8 so it maybe is not likely that this Sarah Jane is really the daughter of Elizabeth there. I wonder whether Sarah Jane was the daughter of a child of George and Sarah, since that Sarah was already 40 (maybe at least) in 1871 and her youngest cihld Emily was born 10 years before Sarah Jane.



yes
http://www.genesreunited.com.au/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1198579

i have just looked at my threads and it was 15 january when i asked about sarah jane

no i havent deleted the threads, but then again i am not sure whether i am doing this right, so maybe i could have.

Marie I can't find any previous threads about this person, I wanted to see what research had been done before that you refer to, have you had other threads and deleted them?

1891 England Census
Sarah Jane Pleasant Age: 17 Estimated birth year: abt 1874 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Crowle, Yorkshire, England Civil parish: Carlton in Lindrick Ecclesiastical parish: Carlton St John the Evangelist Town: Carlton County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Registration district: Worksop Sub-registration district: Carlton ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Joseph Skelton 46
Emma Jefferson 47
Annie Jefferson 20
William Henry Parks 30
Alfred Oulrans 23
Sarah Jane Pleasant 17
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2645; Folio 25; Page 16; GSU roll: 6097755.

on my grandmas birth certificate it says alice mary pleasant, on her mums birth certificate it says sarah jane and that her mother was sarah pleasant formerly thorp

Patricia, it says on her birth certificate that her mothers name is Sarah not
Elizabeth,

There are so many cases of Pheasant for this family, and FreeBMD has fewer mistranscriptions because the names are in alphabetical order, that I wonder whether Pheasant is not the real name. Marie can you say where the name Pleasant is taken from?

The marriage for the couple in 1871

Marriages Mar 1851
Appleby Baker Hull 22 309
Bonner Sarah Hull 22 309
>>> Cundall Sarah Ellen Hull 22 (not Ellis)
Herdsman Mary Hull 22 309
Hought William Hull 22 309
>>> Pheasant George Hull 22 309
Shields Ann Hull 22 309
Wilson William Hull 22 309

Sarah Jayne was born in 1873

Sarah Jane was born in Crowle

However as Pheasant crops up more times than Pleasant, I'd say the former was the original name.

Ozi

Different family, wrong mother:
1881 England Census
Sarah Jane Plesance Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1873 Relation: Daughter Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Female Where born: Crowle, Lincoln, England Civil parish: Crowle County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England
Street Address: John Holgates Row Occupation: Outdoor Labourer? Registration district: Thorne Sub-registration district: Crowle ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Elizabeth Plesance 59 Thetford, Norfolk
Mary Ann Plesance 14 Thetford, Norfolk
Sarah Jane Plesance 8
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4699; Folio: 30; Page: 27; GSU roll: 1342136.

not yet meant, someone asked me if i searched for a marriage and i said not yet

When was Sarah Jane born, as not showing with this family?
Thanks