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I doubt very much that you'll link him to a Hewlett -- same problem as for my great-aunt, events took place between censuses (and in your case possibly outside England).

But gosh the Staines/Sunbury connection is interesting, isn't it??

Dang, I'm good. ;)

Not sure whether you caught the Canadian bit.

Smyth Jr was appointed aide-de-camp to Smyth Sr *in Canada* in late 1875.

This could coincide with a pregnancy in Ireland around that time, if he was in Ireland then. Called to Canada by his father? Trying to trace his trajectory around that time would be the trick.

Hi Janey,

This looks good - just found out that Florence used to go a visit relations (not the Pausey's) in staines/sunbury area - so this could be him - we just have to link him to a hewlett somehow.

Thanks so much for your help we would never have got this far without you all.

Lawrence

Well, my Edward Smyth is still looking interesting!


http://thepeerage.com/p36145.htm#i361446

Lt.-Col. Edward Guy Selby Smyth1
M, #361446, d. 30 July 1904

Lt.-Col. Edward Guy Selby Smyth was the son of General Sir Edward Selby Smyth. He married Georgina Florence Bury, daughter of Hon. John James Bury and Charlotte Theresa Austin, on 24 June 1879. He died on 30 July 1904.

Lt.-Col. Edward Guy Selby Smyth gained the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel in the service of the Royal Irish Rifles.


1901 in Sunbury, Middlesex:

Edwd G Solly Smyth 49
Georgina F Smyth 45
Lucy T Smyth 20
Eva B Smyth 18
Mary Brown 30
Agnes J State 36
Ethel Hills 19
Gwen Hughes 42
Margaret Clayton 19


Ah, how interesting.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_12/iss_1/CAJ_Vol12.1_12_e.pdf

Lieutenant-General Sir Edward Selby Smyth, KCMG, was a British officer who served first as Adjutant-General and then later General Officer Commanding the Canadian Militia from 1874 to 1880. Despite his British heritage, he is recognized as the first post-Confederation commander of the Canadian Army.

Born in Belfast, Ireland, on 31 March 1819, Selby Smyth was educated at Chiswick, Middlesex, and Putney College, Surrey. He entered the British Army on 26 January 1841, and was appointed an ensign by purchase with the 2nd Queen’s Royal Regiment. Serving with his regiment in India, he was the Brigade Major to the Forces in the Southern Concan and Sawant Warree country during the Campaign of 1844 and 1845, where he saw considerable action with his unit. Again by purchase, he became a Captain on 4 August 1848, and was appointed Adjutant of the battalion and Aide-de-Camp to Major-General Sir Guy Campbell.

Smyth accompanied his regiment to South Africa on the outbreak of the Kaffir War in 1850. He served with distinction during the campaign and was mentioned in General Orders for his conduct in command of a column in action at Fish River Bush. Smyth also commanded one of the detached columns at the battle of Berea, where again he displayed exceptional command and earned himself a brevet majority. Following the war, Smyth served first as Deputy Assistant Quartermaster-General, Cape of Good Hope, from May 1853 to March 1855, and then as Deputy Quartermaster-General at the Cape until June 1861.

In 1860 he was detached from his regiment and appointed Inspector-General of Militia in Ireland, a post he held for six years. In 1867, while the flying columns he had organized against the Fenian political movement were at work, he was selected to act as Adjutant-General of the Army in Ireland, and was simultaneously made a Special Magistrate for the County and City of Dublin, to use troops independently in case of rebellion. In March 1868 he was promoted to the rank of Major-General, and in 1870 was made General Officer in Command of the Forces in Mauritius, in the southern Indian Ocean. While there, he acted twice as Governor during 1870 and 1871.

-------------------------------

And a load more. He wasn't an ambassador (which didn't make sense anyway), but he held high government rank; and his son didn't die in a diamond mine, but there's a definite South African connection there! Want him? ;)


http://www.aufa16.dsl.pipex.com/thomasaustin/tree/pafg05.htm

Georgina Florence BURY was born on 1 Feb 1856. She died in 1939.
Georgina married Lt.Col. Edward Guy SELBY-SMYTH on 24 Jan 1879 in Ottawa. Edward died on 30 Jul 1904.

Deaths Sep 1904
SMYTH Edward Guy S 53 Staines 3a 3


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=31&dat=18751122&id=
7f8CAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1SUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1395,759114

The Times, Ottawa, Nov 22, 1875

Lieutenant Edward Guy Selby Smyth, 86th Royal Regiment, from the staff at the Cape of Good Hope, is appointed Aide-de-camp to Major-General Selby Smyth, from the 1st inst., with rank of Captain in the Militia, ... .


Long shot that it's at all related, but it's interesting!

Thank you anyway

I have been on the wikipedia site looking at the Rowland Hill and Caroline Pearson link from the Biography of Sir Rowland Hill but cant keep my eyes open any longer so calling it a night.

Aargh, I thought I had something, but no.

The Smyths above -- wife/mother was:

EDWARD SELBY SMYTH
Spouse: LUCY JULIA SOPHIA CAMPBELL
Marriage: 20 NOV 1848 , , Ireland
Batch No.: M701979

So I looked for a Campbell + De Burgh marriage (which would be a sister of Lucy / aunt of Edward Jr marrying a De Burgh) -- and almost had one.

But it turned out to be a female Campbell and a female De Burgh listed on the same GRO index page (St George Hanover Square, 1851, it looked so perfect). Drat, eh?!

Most of the De Burgh marriages in England were women, actually.

Hello Janey,

Yes so I am led to believe but as you say It may not be the case, I have been trying to get hold of the last of Florence's Grandaughter's as she actually lived with her to see if she can give me any more information but I have had no response back yet.

Thanks for you help with this
Tracey (Lawrence's Wife)

So we may as well mess around with that a little.


1891

Name: Edward G S Smyth
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Sie Edward S (Sir, of course)
Mother's Name: Lucy J S Lady
Where born: Black Rock, Ireland
Occupation: Major in the Army, Rl Irish Rifles

Civil parish: Sunbury
Town: Sunbury
County/Island: Middlesex

Sie Edward S Smyth 73 - Genl in the Army, JP for Mdsx, born Belfast
Lucy J S Lady Smyth 61 - born Armagh
Edward G S Smyth 39 - married, no wife in evidence
Geraldine L I Haggard 29 - daughter of Sir Edward, married
Christopher A Haggard 5
Pamela P Haggard 3
Mab G Haggard 1


Could be of interest, one never knows.

In 1881 the sister is Geraldine Smyth, living with the parents and unmarried, and there are no other children of the couple with them.

Ditto in 1871 - Geraldine S Smith living with mother Lucy S Smith in Richmond, Surrey, no other kids there.

In 1861, Edward and Lucy are in Devon with her sister Francis Harvey (born in Florence) and son Edward, and no other kids.




If Florence was the daughter of an Irish aristocrat, the aristocrat has to be Smyth, right?

Oh, Lawrence, you just aren't helping yourself.

How do you know the father's surname is Smyth (and the mother's is Hewlett)? Why is this the first time we're hearing abou it?

Why did we spend all this time identifying the Pewseys and Florence living with them, when your family apparently knew this all along?

My great-grandfather always knew he came from Irish aristocracy, too. He was even a little more specific: his father was the black sheep younger brother of the 5th Viscount Monck. Which would be why he and his youngest sister (whom I'd never heard of) changed their name (as only I discovered, only about 5 years ago) from Hill to Monck. His older sister (whom I'd never heard of) appears in censuses as a Hill born in Jersey, but her descendants were always told she was a Miss Montmorency from France.

What our ancestors "knew", or at least said, just ain't reality sometimes. ;)

Hello Patricia,
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner pc problems.
My sister in law had the wedding certificate and Florence's father was named as Hewlett (cant remember first name) but we think this is not correct anyway as the fathers surname is Smyth mothers name is Hewlett we are not sure if it is Smyth's sister who married into the de Burgh family or his mothers sister (his aunt) she was taken to England as a child with her real Grandmother could have been Great mother and the Pewsey's were given money to bring her up but she always knew she came from Irish aristocracy!!! as she would pour over the obituaries to see if her real family were looking for her to leave her something. The wedding certificate is in the family somewhere we have them looking for it for more clues.
Regards,
Lawrence

It is. ;)

Here's a little bit about one of them:

http://thepeerage.com/e674.htm

Mmmm, I was wondering about de Burgh possibly being an Irish name as well......

Well, Chris de Burgh is Irish!!!

I'm just finding this person in 1881 interesting:


Name: Mary I. or J. Hewlett
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Servant
Where born: Leigh, Wiltshire, England
Occupation: Housemaid Dom Serv

Civil parish: St George
County/Island: London
Street Address: 34 Charles St
Registration district: Chelsea

Robert N.F. Kingscote 51
Emily M. Kingscote 44
J.R. Kingscote 24
Edwin Chick 38
Henry W. Chick 19
Henry W. Webb 13
Charlotte Long 37
Mary I. or J. Hewlett 24
Mary I.Or J. Clarke 21


The son aged 24 (It's "N.R.") is Nigel; he didn't marry until 1912, died 1921. The family is way up there: Robert is retired Col, MP, they're in Burke's, his wife is daughter of Earl Howe, he has a wiki page, etc. Not seeing an Irish connection. Although Robert's third name is Fitzhardinge.

(I'm wondering whether the Irish connection isn't just Mary Fitzgerald, whatever the rest of the story.)

The only person I can match Mary J Hewlett up with is a Mary Jane Taylor, daughter of an unmarried Mary Taylor, with her mother / grandparents / brother in 1861 and 1871 in Wiltshire (I think she is daughter of Mary, not of Mary's brother Thomas).

I asked that about the marriage cert way back at the beginning, I did. ?

Who were the father and sister -- I think that's the question. ;)


BMD or anyone -- the Margaret Fizgerald marriage record says:

Margarets address; 22 Oneill Street

I can't find such a street in the 1881 census or on a current map.

It's Fulham / Hammersmith / Kensington?

Can someone give me a better idea? Knowing who was at that address in 1881 could be interesting.

Lawrence,
If Florence's father's sister married into the De Burgh family, then who were the father and sister, or is this just family myth?
Also, have you got Florence's wedding certificate with her father's name and occupation on it?
Thank-you

There's a fairly limited number of marriages that could be that sister.

I searched at FreeBMD for marriages of [blank] to DE BURGH 1860-1890, for instance. One might guess that St George Hanover Square (rather than Manchester, e.g.) would be the location. But in any event, it left only a handful of possibilities, where the groom was a De Burgh. No Hewlett brides, of course. ;)

(I checked out "Elizabeth How_et Dewe" who looked promising, but it's actually Howell.)

Hi Patricia
It has been very useful to my wife there are some questions we need to ask the family.
Florence's father had a sister who married into the De' Burgh family I don't know if that is of any help.
I hope to have some more info soon I will try and answer some of you questions.
Can I thank you and the others for all your hard work you have done foe me.
Regards
Lawrence

Lawrence,
Could you tell us if any of this information is of use?
Thank-you

I liked it.....until

Marriages Sep 1901 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HARRIS Jane Wandsworth 1d 1387
*****HILL Florence Kate Wandsworth 1d 1387
REYNOLDS William Colebrook Wandsworth 1d 1387
SAMPSON Samuel Wandsworth 1d 1387

Long shot, but I think I might buy it:

Births Jun 1883
HILL Florence Kate Wandsworth 1d 644

Unless we come up with something better!

Edit re next post - oh well, sigh. ;)

As we all know, I'm a Hill (until my Hill became a fake Monck ;) ) I wouldn't wish the name on anyone trying to do family history.

Yes ... there's a submitted record in the IGI that has him as the son of Rowland Hill. *The* Rowland Hill? I wondered.


http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Pearson_Hill_letter_to_French_Post

A Mons[ieu]r [?] Piron

Secretary's office
London
5. Feb[ruar]y 1862.

Sir

There is a small matter semi-officiel semi private, in which I am sure you will permit me to ask for your kind assistance.

My father, Sir Rowland Hill who, as you may suppose, watches with much interest the adoption throughout the world, of his plans of Postal Reform, has a collection of the postage stamps of the Nations, which collection I am desirous of rendering as complete as possible and with this view I take the liberty of asking whether - supposing it be now possible to obtain - you could favor him with specimens (unobliterated) of the postage stamps used in France during the time of the Republic.

Of these stamps I believe there are eight varieties - six bearing the Head of France, and two bearing the head of the Emperor, then President, and we shall be greatly indebted to your goodness if you can, without much trouble, procure them for us.

In addition to the stamps of the Republic that I have mentioned, my father's collection does not contain the Franc, or the 25. Cent[ime]s stamp of the Empire - which stamps I now find are no longer issued. We shall be much obliged if you can favour us with specimen of each.

I am, Sir
your obed[ien]t Servant
Pearson Hill.
(Private Secretary to Sir R. Hill)