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Well, where did I drag Harold from? A Senior Moment, methinks.

Ellen and Nellie are interchangeable back then. My son-in-law's sister is an Ellen and the family call her Nellie when they want to annoy her!

Seems the right lot to me.

Thanks for posting the details Christine.

thanks christine i'll follow this up

That will be Alberts birth registered in Jan/Feb/Mar qtr 1890.

Ellen must have been Nellie I think.


1881
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James NORMAN Head M Male 40 Bilston, Stafford, England Metal Roller
Amey NORMAN Wife M Female 41 Birmingham, Warwick, England Wife Of Roller
May ROBERTS Widow U Female 80 ((Birmingham)), Worcester, England Washerwoman
Hellan NORMAN Daur U Female 13 ((Birmingham)), Worcester, England Scholar
John NORMAN Son U Male 11 ((Birmingham)), Worcester, England Scholar
Alice NORMAN Daur Female 9 ((Birmingham)), Worcester, England Scholar
James NORMAN Son Male 8 ((Birmingham)), Worcester, England Scholar

Source Information:
Dwelling 20 Bartletts Buldgs Key Hill
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341718
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3004 / 82
Page Number 22

This is from Familysearch, Ancestry has James and Amy together and then May Roberts and the children seperate, children are listed as May's children.

Christine

Marriages Jun 1891
Bird John Birmingham 6d 99
Norman Ellen Birmingham 6d 99

Births Mar 1890
Norman Albert Edward Birmingham 6d 194



1891 England Census
about Albert Norman
Name: Albert Norman
Age: 1 3/12
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Amy
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:


Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Amy Norman 51
Nellie Norman 22
John Norman 21
Alice Norman 18
James Norman 10
Albert Norman 1 3/12

You need the birth cert to be sure who his mother is.


Christine

albert edward norman 31 12 1889- 8 5 1958
parents john edward bird ellen norman married 1891

Norman Bird? Harold Norman? Can't find either.

meg no wonder we couldnt find albert he was born a Norman he was born dec 1889 and died 1958.

meg BINGO someone related to albert just got in touch through genes so i might get a bit futher thanks zena

thanks meg i'll work on him xxxx

I don't know what to suggest next.

You could get the birth cert I suggested, but it aint going to really prove anything. His dad should be a labourer, but then every Bird around then was a labourer.

Has your hubby no relatives at all that he can think of? A distant cousin? An aunt from way back? Did he go on the bus to Blackpool? Anything about his childhood. Did he ever get Christmas presents from Aunts and Uncles? One relly of mine remembered vistiting someone who lived near a canal and got pushed into the water when he was about 7. That sorted that family out - great uncle Albert lived adjacant to the canal.

He'll have to think harder. Something. Anything. Did somebody have a dog? Can he remember someone with an unusual occupation - my hubby's uncle was a steeplejack.

Last resort but often very fruitful, has he any idea where anyone was buried? Locating a grave in a municipal cemetery can tell us all sorts.

He has got to rack his brains on this. Anything at all.

Margaret

roger says his granddad died before he was born so albert was dead by june 1951

fits age wise doesnt it

sorry had to nip out.
ok what would you do next

How about this?

BIRD, Albert Edward Single ? 22 1889 Stafford Staffs VIEW

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
34996 Reference:
RG14PN34996 RD641 SD21 ED5 SN9999

Address:
South Barracks Gibraltar County:
Overseas military

Get him to think. Filleted gnat or not. Anything. These Birds are not in Birmingham.

I could suggest you get the birth cert of the Albert Edward I found in 1889, only cos I can find no other any better. But if it doesn't say his father was John Edward, then it won't help.

And if John Edward died when Albert was a baby, by 1914 he might have just made a name up, to save face.

Before you do that, let's look further afield than Birmingham.

have to go now will get back to you once all info digested thank you both for your time help and patience xxxxxxxx

sorry he's bright and inteligent but has the memory of a fillited gnat

I was in the middle of posting a story when the thread disappeared.

Zena, get your husband to think more carefully.

My husband always said his dad had two brothers and a sister. I believed him. I met them all and knew their children as my hubby's cousins. We went to their weddings. And he said his grandad was from Macclesfield, Cheshire.

One day I said to him "Why was your dad always interested in the fortunes of Preston North End Football Club?", and hubby said he had no idea.

So I dug about. And Lo and Behold! His dad had THREE brothers and THREE sisters, and his grandad was from Preston.

I've contacted all these people now, and when I said "I've found a family in Sandbach" he said "Oh, I remember going to Sandbach on the bus".

So get Roger to rack his brains. Where did his parents visit when he was a kid. Does he remember and Auntie with a strange name - anything at all.

yes thats right meg albert and fatherinlaw

Zena said he was a caster. Did you Zena? No, you didn't. It was Albert and his father in law Fred Sanford who were casters.