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yes thats his second marraige

Is this his Scond Marriage?

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JOHN WELLINGTON BATHGATE Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: JANE REID Family
Marriage: 15 MAY 1874 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M117221 1855 - 1875 6035516 REGISTER Film NONE


Sheet: 00

OH Ok, i thought i was not getting something there!!

Thank you for looking.

Tina

Thought it may be connected as she is marrying in same area ,but sorry father is James

Hi ellen,

Who is this Agnes Bathgate Please??

I dont understand? What am i missing here?

Tina

AGNES BATHGATE Pedigree
Female Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: ROBERT COPELAND Family
Marriage: 23 OCT 1863 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M117221 1855 - 1875 6035516 REGISTER Film NONE


Sheet: 00



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I know,,

A couple of census states he was born in ireland, but two of the census 1861 & 1871 state he was born in the west indies at sea!!

This is why i need to find more out.

Iam taking it that Johns 1st child was Simon so was named after Johns father and on Johns 2nd marraige he put his parents as Simon Bathgate and Mary ( duffy).

As i cant find any more information before or after the 1841 census on any of them except John iam thinking this must be his relations!

Tina

1861
Name: John Bathgate
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Sea, On
Registration Number: 722
Registration district: Tranent
Civil parish: Tranent
Town: Tranent
County: East Lothian
Address: Church Street
Occupation: Coal-miner
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 24
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1861_135
Household Members: Name Age
John Bathgate 31
Margaret Bathgate 30
Simon Bathgate 8
John Bathgate 3
Christina Bathgate 8 Mo


Unfortunately, we are unable to display the accompanying images of this census at present, despite extensive negotiation with the General Register Office for Scotland. Permission from them has not, as yet, been forthcoming. For this reason, and to enable you to continue with your family history research, Ancestry has heavily transcribed the Scottish Census records to ensure you have access to all key areas of information contained within this collection.

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Yes thats what i have been doing for months, just guessing!! it is frustrating when you hit a brick wall isnt it??

Thank you for looking

Tina

If you have the 'original' 1841 census image from Scotlandspeople, I would rely on the information given there being correct.

I've had a look about the IGI for possible marriages for the children etc but can't find anything relevant.

Maybe they moved back to Ireland ... with Frances being so young and needing cared for ... possibly by extended family.

It's all guesswork unfortunately.

Hi helen,

i have also been given this census before, but the one i have from scotlands people shows Mather and not Douglas...

For info 1841 Scotland

Name: Simon Bathgate
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1800
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Tranent
County: East Lothian
Address: Church Stree
Occupation: Coal M
Parish Number: 722
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age

Simon Bathgate 41
Mather Bathgate 19 Ireland
John Bathgate 12 Ireland
Mary Bathgate 12 Ireland
James Bathgate 15 Ireland
Frances Bathgate 8 Mo Tranent , East Lothian, Scotland

And The James on this one is 15 ?? Very strange do you think??

I cant get my head round this one i have been trying to locate these people for quite a while now and most times i get something different but could be relevant ?

Thank you for taking the time to find this.

Tina

Looks like 'Douglas' was a member of this family. (A female) Possibly badly mistranscribed.

Piece: SCT1841/722 Place: Tranent -East Lothian Enumeration District: 9
Civil Parish: Tranent (Part Of) Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 6 Page: 1
Address: Church Street

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BATHGATE Simon M 41 Coal Miner Ireland
BATHGATE Douglas F 19 Ireland David entered then crossed out
BATHGATE John M 12 Ireland
BATHGATE Mary F 12 Ireland
BATHGATE James M 12 Ireland
Page: 6/2 BATHGATE Frances F 8m Unknown

Thank you Helen,

i think also that they are the prim source from what they told me when i was there at easter.

Looks like this brick wall is staying then!!

Tina

As you said, there are no records on Scotlandspeople for either the birth or death you are searching for.

I wouldn't think there would be any further Parish records to be found other than the ones in Scotlandspeople. But I may be wrong.

Might be worth e-mailing Scotlandspeople and asking them if they are the prime source for all the available Parish records for Scotland.

I think somehow they are.

I have just last night signed up for the lothians family history society, so i may get something from there ,, Fingers crossed

Yes i know this, i checked when i was there.

Would you know if there would be any church registers for me to locate in Tranent??

Or am i just going to have to give up on this bit of search at this brick wall?

Regards Tina

The indexes for the parish records are on Scotlands People.

Do you think i would have any luck looking in parish registers for either mary's death or frances's birth? and would i find these in Tranent??

I have checked scotlands people for these when i visited scotland earlier in the year.

Regards Tina

Statutory registration did not begin in Scotland until 1855.

If Simon's wife died before her death wil not be recorded on Statutory records.

Hi,

iam tracing my family tree of the bathgates from townhill around 1881- present day.
Before that they came from tranent, haddington, east lothian and this is where i come stuck, my GG grandfather was John (wellinton Bathgate) born at sea in the west indies about 1830, his father was simon bathgate and mother was Mary duffy ( this is on john's 2nd marraige certificate) in 1841 simon was living in tranent east lothian with his children, john, Mather, james, Mary, Frances. but no mother ( mary) i cant find any thing previous to 1841 for any of them and nothing after 1841 except for my GG grandfather john.
The children were all listed as born in ireland except frances who was born in tranent about 1840 ( i cant find this birth certificate or a death fro mother mary around this time.
If anyone has any additional information that may help unlock this i would be very grateful.

Best wishes Tina