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The Davies-Cook/e surname combo is just too common to pick out yours. If you want to PM me your mother's and uncle's names and places and dates of birth, I can check. I can guess at Philip's birth, but let me have the details and I'll send you the registration data if I find them.

I've been looking on FreeBMD, looking for & finding some of Clara's Children & then subsequently looking at my nan's (Alice May Cook) children, but I can't find my mum or uncle Philip. Does it only show deceased people on FreeBMD?

I've only got a short birth certificate for my mum, so it doesn't give her mum's name. On my mum & dad's marriage certificate it only gives their father's names & not their mothers.

I've found two marriages for my nan. The first to John Sandford in Abergavenny abt Sept/Dec 1929 who sadly died of cancer at the age of 21 between Jan/Mar 1930 before my Aunty Iris Joan Sandford was born on 17.9.1930.

Then to William Gilbert Davies Ross Oct/Dec 1934.

I wonder whether Madmeg's reading. ;)

Hers was one of my favourites. Her man, with a very unusual name (I figured out what it was and who he really was), married a woman named Wall who had kids, and by the next census they had all completely inexplicably changed their name to Roome.

Her theory: four Walls made a Roome. Hahahaha.

Wow, the mind boggles to think of all the different ways that people can change their identities & the possible reasons behind it. You hear about people with more than one family but it always seems to unusual. You don't think it could happen to you, it always seems to happen to someone else.

Thanks for all your help, I appreciate you're very busy.

I've been emptying out my attic, ready to have the loft insulated. So I've been up to my eyeballs today in old dust. I'll be back to work tomorrow.

But hopefully back on the trail.

Goodnight.

My gr-grfather did it. Married, had a daughter, wife died right afterward, signed up for India, did 5 years, deserted when he was being sent to invade Afghanistan instead of being discharged as promised -- and on returning to England changed his name and remarried and became my gr-grfather -- and five years after figuring that out (I had never heard the story of his desertion until two years ago), I'm still working on it!

If yours was like mine -- and believe me, mine was not unique; we see name-shifters here all the time, and deserters -- his name may not have been Alfred or Cook at all!

Mine kept his given names and place and date of birth, just changed his surname. Others made different adjustments. Usually they're traceable somehow -- in my case, it was the given names and birth details, and it turned out that the surname he adopted was his younger sister's middle name (I don't know why she had that name). Some men took their mothers' maiden names, and so on.

That Alfred Cook in the Royal Marines is just a very half-baked theory at the moment. There could be any number of other explanations for him and Clara not marrying. Remember that there were often very good reasons for marriages breaking down, it's just that people weren't able to divorce.

Not to give up. I have work to do today, but I'll look at it again.

Thank you, I had no idea that Alfred Cook could be in the Royal Marines. It does seem to look like my great grandparents were never actually married.You've given me a lot to go on with thank you.

I have an interesting Alfred Cook in 1901.

Name: Alfred Cook
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Member Of Crew (Member)
Where born: Stonehouse, Devon, England
Occupation: Bugler RMLI = Royal Marine Light Infantry
Condition as to marriage: Single

Civil parish: Vessels
Town: Gibraltar
County/Island: Royal Navy
Registration district: Royal Navy at Sea and in Ports Abroad
Sub-registration district: RN Ships
ED, institution, or vessel: Niobe


There's no Alfred Cook* in the 81 or 91 censuses to match (a couple in Devon, but none born in the Plymouth/Devonport area).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Niobe_(1897)

She was part of the Channel Squadron at the outbreak of the Boer War (1899–1900), and was sent to Gibraltar to escort troop transports ferrying reinforcements to the Cape. On 4 December 1899, Niobe and HMS Doris rescued troops from the SS Ismore, which had run aground. She saw further action in the Boer War and the Queen's South Africa Medal was subsequently awarded to the crew.
She returned to the Channel, but later escorted vessels as far as Colombo


I expect the vessel sailed from Plymouth and that is where this Alfred Cook signed on -- using the location as his place of birth.


http://www.seayourhistory.org.uk/content/view/441/593/

Since the mid 1800s the Royal Marines were separate bodies - the Royal Marine Light Infantry (RMLI) and the Royal Marine Artillery (RMA). These two organisations formed four home Divisions of RMLI Plymouth, Portsmouth and Chatham and RMA Portsmouth.



Alfred Errnest Cooke 1879 is the only person who seems to be a match for our Alfred.

Is it possible that he was this person in the 1901?

If so, and I'm sure I'll be reviled for saying this, it's possible that he was married by 1901 (or after - or in Gibraltar), and estranged from his wife when he partnered with Clara, and unable to marry her. I can't identify a marriage to go with the theory, unfortunately. ;)

Because the thing is, there still is just no Albert Cook* + Clara Rob(b)ins/Dobbs marriage, anywhere ever.


And I'm sure more has been said while I was doing this. I just find all this interesting, and have been off on tangents reading about the Royal Marines ...

It is sad, because it seems that there is alot of double standards. It seems that there is a lot of secrets & the silence is what made it possible for our grandparents etc to make there childrens life hell & full of guilt. When I was old enough to work out my parents got married a few months before my brother was born I teased my mum about it. Because I knew she would be embarassed. I was only in my teens so I put it down to ignorance. I try to be a bit more sensitive about it know.

My dad's motto seemed to be 'don't do what I do. Just do as I say'.

Teresa

I think I need to get some sleep now, So I'll say goodnight.

Thats right we all thought the Victorians were whiter than white, but that was not the case in most familys.
I just wish all this info was available when my grandparents were alive so I could tell them about the illigit children there parents had...not nice I know but they made my parents life hell because they "had to get married" in the 1950s

jax

Jax

I apologise if I overreacted, but I am only just finding out things about my family. I'm not familiar with the way people lived back then & so I'm discovering it is a lot different to the way some people have portrayed it.

Thank you for all your help, it is much appreciated.

Teresa

Teresa

We were not making jokes over your gt grandmothers marital status, I was quite normal for them not to marry but say they were, normally because one or the other was already married.
Divorce was too expensive for the normal person back then, so they lived as man and wife or married bigomsly

jax

Check my posts at 16:27 and 17:51 - oh, and 18:02 - and let me know where I can find any acknowledgement by you of anything in them.

See whether you can figure out how long it took me to find and post all that information.

"I cant spend hours on here waiting to see what people put so unfortunately I can only reply when I get time to look on here."

Let me know when that will be, I guess.


Jokes about your great-grandmother's marital status? What invisible pixels are you reading? I was joking about my ignorance of some parts of England's geography. I don't see any jokes about anybody's marital status.

My mother's mother's mother, a domestic servant, had a child before she married.
My mother's father's mother, a domestic servant, was pregnant when she got married.
One of my greatx2 grandmothers that I can think of offhand, an agricultural labourer, had a child before she married.
One of my pairs of greatx3 grandparents never married, middle-class though they were for the time, because she was the widowed sister of his deceased wife, and it wasn't allowed.
I'm pretty sure a pair of my greatx2 grandparents never married, because I can't find a marriage, and he "re"married 30 years later, while the first wife was still alive ... so either living in sin or bigamy!

Facts of life, those things.

I have given as much information that I had & I have thanked you several times. As I have got new information I have added it.

I'm not whining, I'm pointing out that I came on here for help. And you have given lots of help which I showed appreciation in my previous replies. Even though amongst your banter with your friend you have made jokes over my great grandmother marital status. Which I found quite inappropriate.

Do you make jokes of all the people that come on here asking for help?

I cant spend hours on here waiting to see what people put so unfortunately I can only reply when I get time to look on here.

Once again, I thank you for the help.

Okay, well I'll stop wasting my time now.

Because I come on here to help people who have the courtesy to acknowledge the help they're given and not start whining about being "attacked" when they don't assist the people trying to help them. Like by answering the simple questions in my last post. So we're going nowhere, and I'll go elsewhere.

You're extremely welcome, I'm sure.

Yes I did only find out yesterday that Clara was in fact Robbins from a distant relation that contacted me only the day before. I've been working through the details he's given me & between us we found that Clara was a Robbins. His surname is Cooke with an 'e', but as on the headstone ours is Cook without the 'e' both for Alfred & Clara. The relation I am in contact with is from a completely different part of the family & not our Cook side of the family. Even though the name is similar.

I came on here to just get some help, not be attacked. If I had all the information that you are asking then I wouldn't need to come on here in the first place. I've spent hours typing information on to my tree, so if I do make a spelling mistake it is due to being overtired. Not a deliberate ploy to deny you information. As I said many times Clara was born & died in Ross on Wye. If she travelled to another county in between I do not have that information.

Um, you "discovered today that Clara was born Robbins, because she was born before Thomas Dobbs & Caroline Robbins got married. So she was registered Clara Robbins."

Like, because I posted it yesterday?? With all the related details?

You're still just not helping yourself or anyone else.

You have info from Clara's headstone. What was her name when she died???

You're spelling Alfred's name with an "e" now -- Alfred Cooke. In your opening post it was Cook. ? What does *his* gravestone say?? Name, dates ... ?

I'm afraid that I'm tired now of waiting for what the next little dribble of information might be, to make me find I've wasted time searching for something that wasn't ...

Why not just give all the info you have?


Might this be Clara's death?

Name: Clara Frampton
Birth Date: 24 Jan 1886
Death Registration Month/Year: 1981
Registration district: Somerset
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 23
Page: 1414

Just a wild guess, at this point .........

I apologise, I must've got Peggy Frampton & Frank Baker the wrong way around. As I said some are dates off gravestones & some are estimations that's why it's circa. The Hydsh bit was from a census I was sent by email from another distant family member, but it was several years ago & it was stored on an old pc.

Thank you for all the help that you have given, it is much appreciated.

I just discovered today that Clara was born Robbins, because she was born before Thomas Dobbs & Caroline Robbins got married. So she was registered Clara Robbins. The dates I had for Clara is from her headstone. This is where I got the dates for Alfred Cooke. Most of the information is from gravestones in the churchyard for the children & information from my mother & I met some of the children. But my mother has no knowledge of Alfred (as she never saw him) & Clara died when she was about 11ish. I tried looking at FreeBMD but I was obviously looking for the wrong person.

Here we have a Cook-Baker marriage in Ross

Marriages Jun 1921
Baker Percy R Cook Ross 6a 1001
Cook Clara Baker Ross 6a 1001

(Not found earlier at Ancestry because there it's transcribed as "Clare".)

If the Baker-Cook 1924 birth is known for sure to be our Clara's child, it makes sense that this would be her. Only the marriage certificate would say for hopefully sure (father's name, age, former name(s), marital status).

It doesn't necessarily mean she was ever married to Alfred Cook; she could have used the surname, and even called herself widowed when she married Baker, without having been married.


Oh and btw, if there is a Frampton birth in 1928 and a Baker birth in 1924, she didn't marry Frampton *then* Baker anyway!!

I know what you mean JC lol

Anything north of Watford Gap is foriegn to me, but as I lived near Hitchin I knew where it was and I know Ross on Wye is somewhere near Wales and I have never been there.

jax