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Okay, I have no idea which is which, they both just sound like cows to me. ;)

It's just Teresa isn't actually giving us *information* and I'm casting about trying to figure out what we're talking about!

Per the 1911, Clara Cook was born c1886, so I was just looking for a matching birth. The options are 1881 Chelsea, 1885 Hitchin and 1887 Gloucester. Does the 1911 give a place of birth?

Teresa says:

Clara Dobbs born in Hydsh, Ross parent's were Thomas Dobbs c1851 Walford Herefordshire & Caroline Louisa Robbins b22/5/1867 in Weston under Penyard

So ... I find no Clara Dobbs with those parents in 1891. I do find:

Name: Clara Dobbs
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Anna
Gender: Female
Where born: Hitchin, Hertfordshire, England

Civil parish: Hitchin
Town: Hitchin
County/Island: Hertfordshire

Thomas Dobbs 34
Anna Dobbs 32
Clara Dobbs 12
Willm Dobbs 9
Hugh Ross 22


and I wonder whether Ana was a second wife and Clara was her daughter.

If Caroline Louisa Robbins was born 1867, she didn't have a child born c1879.

Marriages Mar 1887
BUSSELL Joseph Herbert Ross 6a 649
> DOBBS Thomas Ross 6a 649
> Robbins Caroline Louisa Ross 6a 649
TOOTH Clara Ross 6a 649


Aargh, that census is *Hertfordshire*. Aargh. By the most absolute coincidence!

There is No Clara Dobbs in Herefordshire with parents Thomas and Caroline in 1891, and she had to be born by 1891, surely.

Aha!!!

Name: Clara Robins
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Ross, Herefordshire, England

Civil parish: Walford
Town: Hope Mansel
County/Island: Herefordshire

John Robins 50
Louisa Robins 24 - daughter -- *but* it says *Dobbs*
Thomas Dobbs 45 - son-in-law
Clara Robins 4 - granddaughter
John Dobbs 2 - grandson
Elizabeth Dobbs 8/12 - granddaughter
Elizabeth Pimble 25
Henry Pimble 5
Wm Er Pimble 3
Arthur Pimble 5/12


Household in 1901:

Thomas Dobbs 45
Louisa Dobbs 34
Clara Dobbs 14
George Dobbs 12
Isabella Dobbs 10
Thomas Dobbs 8
Catherine Dobbs 6
William Dobbs 3
Charles Dobbs 1



Does Teresa know these things and just not tell us?????

The image clearly shows her as Robins, between two Dobbs-s.

Births Jun 1886
ROBBINS Clara Ross 6a 483


TERESA ?????

As Hitchin is in Hertfordshire and Ross is in Herefordshire, is there any connection with the family living in that part of the country?

jax

To find your post, just click on "My threads" over on the left.

Teresa, you have no idea whether Clara married any one or more of those people. Yes, children could be registered in the father's surname without the parents being married, if the father consented. (If the mother was married to someone else, the birth was supposed to be registered in that husband's name no matter who the father was, but that doesn't mean it never happened differently -- it definitely did.)

There's no marriage of a Clara to a Frampton after 1916 for any surname we have (there are Clara Furness, Passarella and West).

For Clara + Baker there are of course many more, but no Dobbs or Cook or Frampton.

To marry that many times in such rapid succession, she would have had to be very unlucky and widowed twice in a few years, since divorce wasn't really widely available, unless she was one of the unusual ones.

Quite possibly it was Alfred who was already married when he and Clara partnered so they couldn't marry. Or they just didn't.

So it is best not to state as fact things that aren't known to be fact. I thought you had actually identified a marriage for Clara and Alfred, so I was hunting for it, but to no avail. Same for Alfred's date of birth -- you said 1886, but there's nothing to show that, that I can find.

Do you have the record of Alfred's death by any chance? It might give an accurate year of birth.

I don't know what Hydsh is ... is this Clara's birth?

Births Sep 1885
Dobbs Clara Elizabeth Hitchin 3a 455

Do you know when/where Clara died?

There isn't a registration for the birth of Amy Cook, the child in the 1911 census, so she must have been registered under a different surname -- like maybe Clara's first husband/partner's ... or Alfred's first wife/partner's ...


I am totally confused.

I find no Frampton birth with mother Dobbs, and the mother's surname for Frank Baker 1924 Ross is Cook. Clara's birth surname wasn't Cook, although that doesn't mean she might not have said it was.

Oh, and the 1928 Frampton birth shows mother's surbame Baker. You do have knowledge that these are both Clara Dobbs's children??

Teresa, you do have access to FreeBMD, so giving "c" dates of birth isn't useful.

Why can't find my post on the board? It was there one minute, then I had an error message. So I'm trying to bump it up.

Teresa

Would it be know for people to give their children the fathers surname, without actually marrying them?

Well as far as I know she married Alfred first because the other children are the youngest ones. Then someone Frampton because there is a Peggy Frampton born c1930 Ross. Then someone Baker because the youngest son is Frank Baker born c1923 Ross. Frank Baker was a prisoner of war in Japan WWII. He made it back to England.

Clara Dobbs born in Hydsh, Ross parent's were Thomas Dobbs c1851 Walford Herefordshire & Caroline Louisa Robbins b22/5/1867 in Weston under Penyard. I've gone up the Robbins & Dobbs side of the family & now trying to do the Cook side of the family.

Teresa

I would'nt be surprised if they never married

Edit - Sure plus it should also say Hitchin not Flitchin not that it matters as its nowhere near Ross

jax

That was just a possible. ;)

At this point I haven't a clue when, where or whether Clara or Alfred married anybody at all!

(jax, can I possibly talk you ... and everybody else who copies 1911 transcriptions ... into making the slight adjustment that makes it intelligible to those not used to them --

YOUNG, Clara Elizabeth Wife Married
9 years F 32 1879 Flitchin Herts VIEW
- but instead -
YOUNG, Clara Elizabeth Wife Married 9 years F 32 1879 Flitchin Herts

?)

Not sure about those marriages JC

1911 census - household transcription
Person: YOUNG, Robert Henry
Address: 76 Stanmore Road Stevenage

.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOUNG, Robert Henry Head Married M 33 1878 Joiner Ivewark Notts VIEW
YOUNG, Clara Elizabeth Wife Married
9 years F 32 1879 Flitchin Herts VIEW
YOUNG, Percy Henry Son M 4 1907 Stevenage Herts VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.

From the 1911 census

Births Mar 1909
Cook Lily Isabel Ross 6a 433

But Amy, can't be sure wtihout at least knowing who Clara married in 1901.

Oh well, she was married three times, and Alfred wasn't the first?

So she wasn't Dobbs when she married him!

Or ... married three times, and still only 25 in 1911, and she had children with Mr Cook up to 1919 -- were her other marriages *after* the marriage to Cook??

If not, I don't tihnk she was married three times. Three partners, maybe, but not likely three husbands.

Births Sep 1885
Dobbs Clara Elizabeth Hitchin 3a 455

Marriages Dec 1901
COTTON Susie Hitchin 3a 1025
DOBBS Clara Elizabeth Hitchin 3a 1025
Harris William Charles Hitchin 3a 1025
Switzer William Charles Hitchin 3a 1025
Young Robert Henry Hitchin 3a 1025

Too many grooms. Looks like maybe Mr Harris/Switzer was using an alias.

In any event, it looks unlikely that she and Mr Cook wre married.

I think the 1911 census details is correct.

I think this is the right one. I couldn't find a marriage for Alfred & Clara though. Clara was married 3 times. I always though Lillian was the eldest, but I'm only going on what my mum told me.

These names sure match that 1891 household

Births Mar 1879
Cooke Alfred Ernest Ross 6a 508

Births Sep 1880 (appear to be twins)
Cooke Elizabeth Ross 6a 483
Cooke Mary Ann Ross 6a 483

Births Dec 1885
Cooke Robert Ross 6a 442

Births Dec 1888
COOK Richard William Ross 6a 438


And this is still the only marriage I can see:

Marriages Jun 1906
Brain George Aston 6d 761
? Cook Edward Aston 6d 761
? Dobbs Clara Aston 6d 761
Dukes Annie Elizabeth Aston 6d 761

1911 census

COOK ALFRED **1879** 32 Ross Herefordshire
COOK CLARA 1886 25
COOK AMY 1907 4
COOK LILY 1909 2

The only Alfred Cook I see in 1891 born/living in Ross:

Richard Cook 59
Sarah Cook 42
Alfred Cook 10 << = dob c1881 ??
Elizabeth Cook 9
Annie Cook 9
Robert Cook 6
Richard Cook 3

Or is he, in 1901

William Cook 50
Eliza Cook 51
George Cook 24
Fred Cook 15 <<
Charley Cook 11
Kate Cook 12

But that one's Frederick Charles, reg Q1 1886.


I don't find a marriage for Alfred Cook + Clara Dobbs. Is there a mistranscription somewhere? An Edward Cook may have married a Clara Dobbs 1906 in Aston reg dist.

I'm just too confused all round.

Their children are Lillian Cook born c1907 emigrated to Toronto Canada. Amy Elizabeth Cook c1909. Alice May Cook (my nan) 1913-1993. Catherine (Kit) Annie Cook 1917-1998. William (Tadgie) A J Cook 1918-199. Queenie Cook c1919-2008.

I have a tree on here with about 300 relatives. Not sure if it would appear under my maiden name or my married name.

If you put a tree here at GR and include him in it, anyone else searching for him (and any other people in your tree) will find you. I mention this because you don't seem to have, unless your tree is under a different member name, and "Search trees" really is the premier tool for finding family at this site! Only a tiny fraction of people with trees read these posts, but everyone with a current email address registered gets "hot matches" with names in their tree.

Also, you can find their children born 1911 onward by searching at FreeBMD for Cook births with mother Dobbs

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

-- there are several in Ross, and I won't spoil your fun by telling you the details!

Then you have more names to search trees for. And you can search for their marriages at FreeBMD. And so on.


Edit. You have those children in your tree. -- And sorry, I see you do have Alfred!

Makes sense to include them in your post here, if you're looking for people related to them.

Hello, does anyone have an Alfred Cook in their tree? My great grandfather was Alfred Edward Cook born 1886 in Ross on Wye. Married to Clara Dobbs

Thank you