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Sorry to ask as you have both been really helpful - but would you (or anyone else reading this) be able to tell me the occupants of Richard Patricks household in 1911 please.

Oh I'm with it now!
I must seem rather stupid - especially as I've just found Georgena aged 35 still obviously very much alive and living with her parents on the 1901 census!
Sorry girls, Lynne

"d" means days, Lynne; "m" would mean months. On the census image, her age is 16 days.

Note on the copy from Ancestry I gave on page 1, no age is shown for her in the list under Georgena, as she wasn't yet a month old.

Hi Mel Sorry to be late replying. I had a print out of the Patrick household members on the 1881 British Census - Family Search,org
Listed are: Richard and Eliza with Georgena,Samuel,Sarah,Ernest and Harriett. But under daughter Harriett s age there is a d

Which census are you talking about Lynne when you say there is a 'd' by the age please?

When they wrote down the census names the Head of the house is always first whether it be man or woman and their name is ususally written in full surname included, then children or other members of the family are written as say James Do meaning same surname.

In the case of Georgena on the 1881 I think the enumerator has writen D and then added the name Manscliff? Roberts.

Does a 'd' by the age on a census mean 'died'?
If so - why would the person be included on the census if they had passed away?

You're quite welcome ... but I have to admit it was only 6:30 pm here in Canuckistan. ;)

well girls. I have re-read all last nights findings and have spoken to mom but still cant come up with any more information about that middle name. It wasnt me who corrected the Patrick surname in 2008 so it wouldnt do any harm for me to contact them would it. If I do happen to find what that middle name was and if it had any significance I will let you know - Thanks for staying up late to try to help my search last night. - Lynne

Well girls we certainly did some digging last night!! but it did'nt seem to get us anywhere really did it?

I don't read it as an "o"; see the "o" in Roberts and others.

See the small "e" in Ernest below. That's a possibility. Or "s".

Manocliff sure ain't a name, and neither is Manscliff, although it sounds like it should be. ;)

Nothing that starts manscl*, manecl* or manocl* in the censuses.

Ancestry gives us William Manedith b 1873 in 1891. It's Meredith, of course.

I don't see that place of birth as connected with the middle name.



1901
Name: Georgina Patrich
[Georgina Patrick]

Lynne, do you know / are you the person who made the name correction in 2008? If not, it would certainly be worth contacting them, via the link from Richard's name. A lot of people just don't pay attention to those notes; I've met several relations through mine at Ancestry.

Of course, it could just be someone helpfully correcting all the Patricks transcribed as Patrich. ;)

Oh where are the handwriting experts when you need one!?!
I've had another look and wondered if the 'f's could be 'g's.
Don't know how the name would be pronounced - Manoclegg perhaps?
Oh well I'm off to bed - probably have nightmares over that name!!!
Thank you all for helping - if you do get any ideas please keep me posted. Thanks.
Lynne

1901 England Census
about Georgina Patrich
Name: Georgina Patrich
[Georgina Patrick]
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard Patrich
Mother's Name: Eliza Patrich
Gender: Female
Where born: Monnt Pledsent, Staffordshire, England <<< this should read Mount Pleasent Staffs.

Civil parish: Kingswinford
Ecclesiastical parish: Kingswinford Holy Trinity
Town: Wordsley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Brick Maker<<<<<<<<<

Condition as to marriage:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Stourbridge
Sub-registration district: Kingswinford
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 81
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Patrich 69
Eliza Patrich 57
Georgina Patrich 35
Ernest Patrich 22
Harriett Patrich 21
Harry Patrich 18
Sydney Parton 5

Nw look at where born and I wonder if it was muddled up with her name on that other census??????? Montpless???????

I still think it says Manocliff. The enumerator has firstly writton the D for Do meaning the Patrick surname and then writen the second name in.

My Great Grandmother was Sarah Patrick born 1875 in Kingwinford. Staffs. Her father was Richard and her mother was Elizabeth. Sarah had sisters Georgena, Harriett,brothers Ernest, Samuel Harry. All born around the Wordsley - Kingwinford area. Sarah married Frederick John Baker - they had four daughters (one was my grandmother) and possibly two sons who died as babies (maybe stillborn).
This was all the information I had to start my search with and this is when I came across that strange middle name of Man...
Sorry cant be more helpful.

That Eliza is not with the family in the 1871 census.

If you buy the marriage cert of Richard Patrick and Eliza Roberts it will say if she was married before or Spinster.

1871 England Census
about Benjamin Roberts
Name: Benjamin Roberts
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth Roberts
Gender: Male
Where born: Dawley, Shropshire, England
Civil parish: Kingswinford
Ecclesiastical parish: Wordsley
Town: Wordsley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Stourbridge
Sub-registration district: Kingswinford
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 41
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Roberts 55
Elizabeth Roberts 55
James Roberts 17
George Henry Roberts 13
Martha Emilia Roberts 9

Is this her, and did she not marry then?

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html


Name: Georgina Roberts
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 08 May 1902
Burial Place: Kingswinford, Stafford, England
Age: 34
Birth Date: 1868
Marital Status: Unknown
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991


Lynne, what is your connection with her, so we know what you do know?

I am getting more interested now!!!! Do you know what her sisters names were?

Mel, actually that's not a "recorded marriage", it's a submission by a Mormon. ;) But it is detailed and likely accurate.


Surnames starting with Man in Kingswinford in 1861 are

Manans - maybe Manars - son of who knows whom in the list
Manar - could be, or Manan
Mancel
Mander
Manke - Mantle
Manning
Mansell
Mantle

Checking the images for some of the more idiotic ones there, we get the corrections I've noted above.

Not much help. It's possible her birth certificate named a father, but not likely -- I do have one child of a grx2 grandmother, registered in her mother's surname, who has a father named on the certificate.

A recorded marriage of her mother on IGI.

Eliza Roberts Pedigree
Female Family

Marriages:
Spouse: Richard Patrick Family
Marriage: 16 AUG 1868 Lower Gornall, Stafford, England


Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church.

Aren't you lot good! It went thru my mind as to whether Elizabeth had dallied before she met Richard and he had been good enough to make an honest woman of her! The only information I had was that Gt Grans sisters had tragically died. One had fallen into a well and another had got severly burned by a bonfire. So apart from that and the fact she made the best porridge I know nothing about her - so thank you yet again.