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Thank you for this info. FannyByGaslight, I don't know where I had seen the other info, but very pleased it is wrong,

Barbara x

Barbara.
If your check..ie in this case ..maiden name does not match then you get ALL your money back.

I have sent for many since the price rise and aslo spoken to the people at the GRO so I know thats true.

Also they will search a birth or marriage either side of a certain year with no refs given for £9.25 but you have to wait a couple of weeks instead of 5 days for the certs to arrive.

Hi Daryl
I think I would send for Marriage first to see if there is any clues to help.
I can't say for sure, but since the certs went up in price, I think I saw somewhere that you didn't get anything back if the "check point" didn't match. (you used to get £4 back when the certs were £7 if the checkpoint didn't match)
I may be wrong though.
Good Luck and please let us know how it goes
Barbara x

thanks both of you, I will send for both the marriage certificate and the two birth certificates and see what transpires and let you both know what results, if any, i get from them

Thank you for the expanation Daryl,it is appreciated.

When/if you send for those births may I just say that I would only put mothers maiden Webb and none of her forenames as she may have used Cordelia or Alice? and if all info is not correct GRO wontsend them and just refund your money.

But at least you are ahead with things by at least knowing the maiden surname to use as a ref..

Good luck and happy hunting.

Would be nice to know the results though if that would be ok.

Fan

Hi Daryl
I think, what you really need is Charles marriage cert--to see if there is any clues on that re wittnesses !!

Name: Charles R Austin
Spouse Surname: Broad
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1926
Registration district: Malling
Registration county (inferred): Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 2223
Find Spouse---Lilian G Broad

Barbara x

Thanks FbG but maybe I should have explained better. I didn't say I wouldn't send for the birth certificates and take a look, just that I would keep searching. The story of Charles Austin rests on a confession from him shortly before his death. He said that his name wasn't Charles or Austin but that his surname was Brown. He refused to reveal his christian name or any other details about himself. He claimed to have run away from home to join the army and then given them false details in order to get in, whether he was running from his father or the police was never made clear. The reason I am doubtful that his name was Charles Brown comes from further family information that Alice Louise Brown, daughter of James, was his sister. This information came from Violet Austin who, after the death of Charles, refused to have any further contact with the family. She is now deceased and so it is impossible to get further information from her or any other family members. The only definite information we have about my grandfather is that he called himself Charles Richard Austin and that he married Lilian Grace Broad in about September 1926. As I now know that Alice Webb and William Austin had a son called Charles, it is possible that he was lying and that Alice Louise Brown was his half-sister from his mother's previous marriage to James Brown. Or he is, as he said, the full brother making him either John or Albert Brown. It seems unlikely therefore that he would have been registered at birth as Charles Brown. However, since there is a slight possibility, I will send for the birth certificates and find out

So how will you know if he is one of those births or not if you dont try?

And why would the Charles Browns that Barbara has posted have to have a mother called Alice when we know where Alice is (with Charles)on both 1901 and 1911..

Sorry ,correct me if I am wrong (I often am) but I really dont see the logic of that.

And there are many (plain and with second names)Charles Brown born in Kent about the right time.
You will need to check census for each and every Charles birth trying to eliminate them....

Or you can go to the Records Office that holds Yaldings baptisms and search there..

Hi Daryl and FBG
Do you know where and when Charles died ? and also Cordelia Alice
If we can find their death index there may some clues on them ie birth date.

Barbara x

lol, however, as Barbara seems to have found census records for both Charles Browns, neither of whom have a mother called Alice.....(grrr of frustration!)... oh well, thanks very much for your help both of you and I'll just keep searching!

Yes..My maternal grandmother.

When I said exact date of birth I meant day and month,years are not so useful as they are often out as we all know.


I f you apply for both those certs and put that mothers maiden name is Webb at least you will get your money back in full from GRO if none of them are him.

I think there is every possibility that he is one of the Charles Richard Brown births and quite likely by looking at the evidence on the census that he is most probably the son of William Austen/in.

If that is the case then he may not have a fathers name on his birth cert(when/if we find one for you) as that is what happened with my Nan.

Her parents were married to other people and just lived together,so she was reg in her mothers married name with no father on her cert,as were all her younger siblings.

The birth date he gave was for 1897 which is when Violet was born, so it seems likely that again, this was a lie. Ever wanted to throttle one of your long-gone relatives???? lol

Unfortunately, if Charles Richard was telling the truth he was born as either Albert or John Brown. If he was lying, then he was born as Charles Richard Austin which is the name he married under. Now I know that Charles Austin existed in 1901, it seems likely to me that he was telling a few fibs! He had also claimed that his grandmother came from Ireland, well no matter which Grandmother he was talking about, I can find no record of Irish descent anywhere, so he does seem to have been telling a lie or two!

Do you have an exact date of birth for him at all Daryl?

Then you may be able to have a better chance of sending for the most possible correct birth of the 2 IF either are him of course.

I just noticed the other one too
but maybe not either !!!

1901 census


1901 England Census 1901 England Census
Name: Charles Brown
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Daniel Brown
Mother's Name: Julia Brown
Gender: Male
Where born: Maidstone, Kent, England

Civil parish: Maidstone
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Union Street

Registration district: Maidstone
Sub-registration district: Maidstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 90
Household Members: Name Age
Daniel Brown 38
Julia Brown 36
Alice Brown 12
William Brown 9
Charles Brown 7
Nellie Brown 5
Louis Brown 3
Michael Brown 1


Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 766; Folio: 11; Page: 14.

==========================================

and

1901 England Census 1901 England Census
Name: Charles Brown
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Eli Brown
Mother's Name: Kate Brown
Gender: Male
Where born: Yalding, Kent, England

Civil parish: Yalding
Ecclesiastical parish: Yalding St Margarets
Town: Yalding
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address: birds farm cottages
Employment status: View image

Registration district: Maidstone
Sub-registration district: Yalding
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 116
Household Members: Name Age
Eli Brown 50
Kate Brown 39
Frederick Brown 15
Kate Brown 14
Levi Brown 10
Charles Brown 7
Leonard Brown 2


Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 761; Folio: 65; Page: 19.

There are 2 births that could be him as Brown.


Births Jun 1894

Brown Charles Richard Maidstone 2a 688

Births Dec 1894

Brown Charles Richard Maidstone 2a 700

Thank you Barbara.

Thanks Barbara, I hadn't found that one so will give it a try. Fingers crossed!

No record of the marriage as yet to William Austen, but I do have Violet's birth certificate. Of course it is possible that they just claimed to be married when in fact they weren't. I haven't yet found a death record for James Brown either

have you tried this birth ?

Births Jun 1894
Brown Charles Richard
Maidstone 2a 688

Yep that's her