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Graham -- I suspect the bigger problem was there was no tree. ;) It might also have been a matter of being given a little too much free drink, and drinking of it too freely, and waking up with a bad case of morning-after regrets, as I understand these things often happened. At least he did survive and had at least one child, my grx2 grmother. Now if I could only figure out whom he married ...

It is a bit of a surprise to discover what world travellers one's probably very impoverished ancestors were 200 years ago, isn't it?

Hi Janey,

I've managed to confirm online that Benjamin served in New South Wales, Australia from 1810, before being shipped to Colombo, Ceylon in 1814 where he remained until 1821. Benjamin too was medically discharged in 1826 due to recurrent bouts of fever if exposed to damp conditions.

I guess that means it's doubtful that our 'relly's' knew each other 0:(

Hi Janey / Somerset Girl,

"Mine was born 1796 so too young for Waterloo. He enlisted on Christmas Eve 1814 at the age of 17 -- imagine what must have driven someone to that".

(He'd just discovered that there were no presents under the tree with his name on? - lol!)

Seriously, it would be fantastic to get a full copy of his record. (I'll send a cheekily optimistic PM to Somerset Girl with my e-mail addy!).

It would be nice to think that the two men may have known each other and maybe, endured the same hardships.

Many, Many thanks you two.

Graham
xxx

If I can butt in and create work -- the image is at FMP, SomersetGirl?

I don't subscribe, but I found my grx3 grfather's Chelsea Pensioner record there just last mnth, and got one of my buddies here at GR to save the image and send it to me by email. I'll bet that if Graham PMs you his email address, you'll do the same for him. ;)

Mine was born 1796 so too young for Waterloo. He enlisted on Christmas Eve 1814 at the age of 17 -- imagine what must have driven someone to that. And was discharged in Grenada a little more than 7 years later, suffering from intermittent fever and visceral disease.

Maybe they knew each other. ;)

Well DUH! (Sorry!).

Oh Damn! So he wasn't at Waterloo then.

Odd that he would enlist at Portsmouth around 200 miles away - rather than In Nottingham, about 30 miles away?

PS

Ironic that both (?) were in the Cutlery trade - I'm guessing the 'Grinder' would probably work in Cutlery which Sheffield is World famous for.

PPS

And both in West Indies!

No love - I think that description and service relates to my original erroneous Benjamin.

Hi Somerset Girl

See above post !!!

Hi Somerset Girl,

Has to be him!

You're an Angel!

Many, many thanks!

Graham
xxxxx

OH MY GOD!

He might've fought with Wellington at WATERLOO !!!!!

2nd Battalion
In 1809 the 2nd/73rd Foot was raised in Nottingham from local militia companies. It remained in England until 1813 when it was shipped to Sweden , Germany and The Netherlands for a series of minor actions.

In 1814 the battalion found itself in Flanders and in 1815 part of Wellington's Army in Belgium . The regiment was in Major-General Halkett's Brigade in Lieut.General Sir Charles Alten's 3rd Division. The 2nd/73rd Foot fought in the Battle of Quatre Bras two days before Waterloo. They lost 53 men killed and wounded. At the Battle of Waterloo itself, the regiment was charged by French Cavalry no less than 11 times during the battle and bombarded by French artillery. It remained in square without breaking. The 2nd/73rd lost 6 officers and 225 men killed and wounded, the second heaviest casualties suffered by a line infantry regiment, after the 1st 27th (Inniskillings) which lost 450 out of 700 men in holding their square and Wellington's line. After Waterloo the battalion was part of the Army of Occupation in Paris before moving back to England. The 2nd Battalion disbanded in 1817 sending 300 men to the 1st Battalion in Trincomalee .

Hi Somerset Girl / Astra / Janey

Oh Wow!

Look at Benjamin Crook (born circa 1791)'s occupation in the 1851 census ..................

Laborer (Chelsea Pensioner) !!!!!

Ha! Ha! This is very nearly a deja-vu moment - remember the original thread?

Now then ..................... can any of you wonderful women find out about this Benjamin's Army career?

Thanks in advance!

Much Love

Graham

Hi Janey,

For goodness sake! There's you, working your proverbials off - and me, not realising there was a 2nd page! DOH!

I go to football matches and bellow out insults to the referee, like 'Nah then Ref - Ar thy eyes bloody painted on?' (you have to imagine my wonderful Yorkshire accent!).

I do apologise for missing all of that stuff you've entered! As you rightly say - Q.E.D.!

Thank you ever so much for all your trouble - I owe you a large beer, dear! (By your 'monicker', I'm guessing your in Canada / Canadian?) so you may have a long wait!).

Anyway, Thanks again love!

Best Wishes

Graham

PS

You're right on the 1871 family - Eliza Crooks (nee Abbott) and 2 of her brothers (?) living with them, by the looks.

Uh ... Hello, Graham.

You're referring to all the info I posted here maybe?

Or maybe you hadn't seen page 2 ...

Hi Somerset Girl & Astra

1851 at Princes Street, Mile End Old Town, Stepney
Benjamin Crooks head age 24, labourer, b. Sheffield
Eliza wife 26, b. London
Benjamin son 5, b. Ratcliffe Middlesex
Eliza dau. 1, b. Wapping Middlesex

Marriage page at Shoreditch 1845 has a Benjamin Crooks. Only Eliza on the page is Eliza Patis Miller

1851 census
Piece 1550 Folio 87 Page 35
Head of house is:
James patis age 56, b. Lambeth Surrey
Maria wife 58
and (among others)
William Crookes age 3, grandson, b. Ratcliff Middlesex

WooHoo!

And an interesting household in Wapping in 1851:


Name: Benjamin Crooks
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza Crooks
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Mile End Old Town
Registration district: Stepney

Benjamin Crooks 24
Eliza Crooks 26
Benjamin Crooks 5
Eliza Crooks 1

Benjamin is a labourer at a cooperage.
James Patis was a hoop bender.
They were in the same line of work.


Who will be this Benjamin in 1841:


Name: Benjamin Crookes
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire

Benjamin Crookes 50
Elizabeth Crookes 40
Margaret Crookes 15
Benjamin Crookes 14
Ann Crookes 11
Thomas Crookes 7
Sarah Crookes 5
Mary Crookes 3
Jane Crookes 1


Just too many interconnections between Yorkshire and Stepney for this all to be coincidence!


Oh yes.


Marriages Jun 1845
Canning John Shoreditch 2 424
> Crooks Benjamin Shoreditch 2 424
Crouch Sarah Shoreditch 2 424
> Miller Eliza ** Patis ** Shoreditch 2 424
Scholfield George Shoreditch 2 424
Sheen Elizabeth Shoreditch 2 424
Stembridge Samuel Shoreditch 2 424
Turner Sarah Shoreditch 2 424


Q.E.D.

Those are your William's parents. In 1851 he is living with his maternal grandparents, and in 1861 he is living with some relations of his father.

-- edit -- no he isn't -- this will be him in 1861:

Name: William Crookes
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Servant
Where born: Kilsby, London, England
-- it doesn't say "Kilsby"; the person above him was born in Kilsby, Northamptonshire

Civil parish: Nether Hallam
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow

Greville John Chester 30
Cathr Turner 38
William Crookes 15



Now you just need the certificates to prove me right. ;)

How bizarre. The 1841 Pater household above is clearly the 1851 Patis household (presence of Wayment and Keith) -- but in 1841 there is a whole different James and Maria couple:

James Pates 40
Maria Pates 39
James Pates 16
> Amelia Pates 14
John Pates 4
Caroline Pates 1
Civil parish: St Pancras
County/Island: Middlesex

So Amelia in my previous post doesn't seem to be (directly) related to the Patis household that William Crookes was with in 1851.

I could be wrong!

JAMES PATIS
Spouse: MARIA DAVIS
Marriage: 02 MAY 1824 Saint Dunstan In The West, London, London, England
Batch No.: M096742

AMELIA JANE PATIS
Birth: 07 DEC 1827
Christening: 24 FEB 1828 All Souls, Saint Marylebone, London, England
Father: JAMES PATIS
Mother: MARIA
Batch No.: C053911

That's the only birth shown to them; she married Sep 1852. She is a servant in the 1851.

I wonder whether she was his mother and not married to his father who was really Benjamin Crooks, and William was taken in by an uncle ...

The 1851 household in 1841, St Anne Limehouse, Stepney:

James Pater 46 (I might still say Pates ;) )
Maria Pater 50
Elizabeth Wayment 41
Elina Kuth 18 (Keith, of course)
Lydia Kuth 11 MO

Eliza Keith is a decade too young to be Eliza Crookes in 1861 ...

Interesting that William's first child is Lydia, though.

Ratcliffe and Wapping were in Stepney registration district, the location of the 1847 birth.

-- edit -- ignore this one -- I'm leaving him here since he's been ruled out, but it isn't him.

1861?

Name: William Crookes
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Crookes
Mother's Name: Eliza Crookes
Gender: Male
Where born: Wapping, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Wapping
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Stepney

William Crookes 58 - Ballast Setter?, born Tipperary, Ireland
Eliza Crookes 49 - born Tipperary, Ireland
William Crookes 12
Elizabeth Crookes 17 - born Wapping


Could the reason for no record of Benjamin Crooks be that there wasn't one?

So 1851:

Name: William Crookes
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Grandson
Where born: Ratcliff, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Wapping
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Stepney

James Patis 56 - I'd say Pates, born Lambeth
Maria Patis 58
Elizabeth Wayment 52 - sister, widowed
Maria Nichols 26 - niece
Elizabeth Green 18 - lodger
Lydia Keith 10 - granddaughter
William Crookes 3

And if William is your ancestor, you can tell us who his child/ren was/were, and do you have the family in a census after the 1866 marriage?

Could I guess that these are them in 1871?


Name: William Crook
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza Crook
Gender: Male
Where born: Ratcliffe, London, England

Civil parish: Kimberworth
Town: Rotherham
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Rotherham

William Crook 23
Eliza Crook 23
Lydia Crook 3
Mary Ann Crook 1
John Abbott 21
Edward Abbott 19

Just adding this since I'd replied to your post on Chat and suggested you post here, so I have it in "my threads" can look back later when I have a minute.

You're not being very forthcoming I'm afraid, Graham!

Can you reproduce the census details for the Benjamin you found who was a Chelsea Pensioner?

You do *know* this marriage to be your person? --

Groom's Name: William Crooks
Groom's Birth Date: 1847
etc.

And he is your ancestor?


I think you need that marriage certificate *and* the birth certificate so you have some info that can be used!